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Smurfs, Tariffs, and Our Friend from Texas

/ 03:21:46/E5
Myke:

Welcome back to Middle Outcast. This is episode five being released in September 2025. Our last episode was released in March, so it has been a bit since we last spoke. And this episode's another unique one because we're still trying to find our way here. This episode was recorded on Liberation Day, April 2, so still quite a while ago.

Myke:

This is when the tariffs first started hitting the streets and Tom and I wanted to continue practicing recording for the show And so, we just hopped on a call and hit record. The conversation is not necessarily exciting, but it gets a bit more exciting because at about an hour and thirty seven minutes in, check the show notes for the exact time stamp, but we were able to get our buddy, Bobby Vickers, on on the into the conversation. And he joined us from Texas and brought, what we've been craving is is a perspective that, you know, is quite a bit different from ours. And we thought the conversation was good enough, even in its, you know, sloppy form, to put up because that's what the show is. We wished we would have post this quite a while ago, but life, happens and we're trying to find more sustainable ways, to record this.

Myke:

Getting guests specifically with with dissenting, you know, other ideas, onto the show is is kinda hard. And so we we got some ideas of of how to how to make that easier and we'll be attempting to employ those over over the next several months. But until then, we hope you find this conversation insightful. Thanks.

Tom:

This is Middle Outcast. Now, here are your host, Mike Bates and Tom Rankin.

Myke:

Alright. It's liberation day. Is that today? Today is liberation day?

Tom:

Oh. Are we are we more free that we get liberated?

Myke:

We liberated from our influence. Yeah. Or okay. I didn't know if it like, was tomorrow? I didn't know.

Myke:

So today is liberation day. Liberation day

Tom:

twenty twenty five. That was yesterday. Liberation day was yesterday because he announced the tariffs at the end of the day.

Myke:

We're liberating

Tom:

Today is yep. Today is the fallout.

Myke:

Today is the liberating day.

Tom:

Yeah. Today is the right the repercussions of being free, having been freed. But I don't know the details yet. There's a list of a bunch of countries that that got tariffs on them. There's question about how the the reciprocalness of these tariffs were calculated.

Tom:

Right? So it's not some I I guess it's not a really straightforward calculation as I don't know. We gotta look into the details about how that works. See. Yeah.

Tom:

Complaining some people are complaining that there are no tariffs on Russia, and there are tariffs on islands that only penguins live on.

Bobby:

So I Oh, I did

Myke:

hear I did hear that sound bite somewhere. It's Yeah. Just penguins and whales or something.

Tom:

Yeah. Here's some it's a list. Penguins Penguins, no Russia. It's a list.

Myke:

No Russia. No Russia.

Tom:

Stop. No. Right. It's a hoax. Which hunt?

Tom:

Yeah. So, yeah. Where where

Myke:

are you looking this up, Tom?

Tom:

Well, I'm not yet. Those are just things that kinda hit my feet. I I got out

Myke:

Oh, you're you're putting down notes.

Tom:

Yep. Yep. I'm just putting down some notes of what I saw this morning. In bed, I looked at a couple of posts from Craig O'Dear. Craig O'Dear's, the guy I look look at on, Facebook quite a bit just to keep up with the news.

Tom:

He posts about seven seven or eight times a day. And,

Myke:

Is this like a like a media head or a buddy of yours?

Tom:

Well, he ran for the, the US Senate.

Myke:

Oh, okay.

Tom:

Few few cycles ago as an independent. It was back when Claire McCaskill, and maybe even Jason Kander were running, and he ran as an independent. I don't quite remember who. Anyway, my son was going to UMKC, and he met Craig O'Dear's daughter. And then we also knew that he was president.

Tom:

So, you know, followed him up on Facebook and have some conversations with him every once in a while. But he's good. He's a he's a lawyer up in the Kansas City area and posts politically several times a day. Gotcha. So that's usually kinda where I go for my just what's happening.

Tom:

Craig's pretty on top of it. I don't have to go look around. It's just like, they're the bites. And those are the ones I saw this morning.

Myke:

The Daley O'Dear.

Tom:

Mhmm. The Daley O'Dear. Yep. Laura will hit Heather Cox Richardson. I'll fire up Craig and kinda see what's going on there.

Tom:

And then if I have time, I'll hit Heather Cox Richardson.

Myke:

What is that? Ground news?

Tom:

Oh, yeah. Ground news. Ground.news.

Myke:

Yeah. Sorry. Ground.news.

Tom:

I can't even talk. Yep. There's a lot of complaints going on with the Trump administration, suing some law firms, basically. And I and my understanding is that, they're kinda kowtowing and people are pretty upset that they're basically being extorted, and they're they're donating, pro bono legal, services to his campaign and some odd stuff like that in order to, quote, settle. So I know there are a lot of people that are really upset about it, but I don't know the nuance or the details of that.

Myke:

Oh, sounds like another day in Trumpistan. Well,

Tom:

I mean, it's it's a different news cycle every day. Yep.

Myke:

Logged in to my ground news.

Tom:

I got a bunch of things that I kinda need to catch up on. The speech by Cory Booker.

Myke:

Yes. This is Yeah. You got a bit to catch up on.

Tom:

Yeah. I I I caught it at the tail end of some of that, and it looked inspiring. But there's god. There's just no time in this news cycle for anything to to kind of be noticed.

Myke:

It's brutal.

Tom:

But it seemed like it was compelling. I mean, a lot of talking to What I've heard is, like, some of these conversations are starting to feel kinda real.

Myke:

Yeah. That's that's kind of the sentiment that I've heard with the with that speech. Did he legitimately talk for twenty four hours?

Tom:

Yeah. They're talking all about, I guess, Strom Thurman. Strom Thurman was the previous kind of record holder for twenty four hours.

Myke:

Speaking against civil rights? If that's exactly

Tom:

yeah. I think that's right. Because that was one of the final points that Cory Booker made was that, you know, he was proud to have stood up and broken the record, and especially when the last person who who held it, you know, was arguing against civil rights. And he's like, know, I'm here despite that filibuster. Right?

Tom:

You know? What? I think it was pretty good.

Myke:

What? I I would really love to hear what arguments were made against civil rights, especially one so passionate to us have held the record for being the longest. We get we have to look up some of the content. Like, what merits was whoever this guy making even? Like, our our American values?

Myke:

Like, is It's What words were even being used for this?

Tom:

That's a legit question. Let's let's chat GPT and see what chat chat GPT says.

Myke:

Yeah. Let's get the transcript from the previous filibuster record.

Tom:

What was Strom Thurman's argument in his famous filibuster civil rights. Alright. His yeah. 24 filibuster against civil rights, the longest filibuster in US senate history. It was more of performance of resistance than a coherent argument.

Tom:

His central argument was rooted in preserving segregation and states' rights.

Myke:

God. Alright. There it is.

Tom:

And and and we have this movement back towards states' rights, so we should be back to these arguments soon.

Myke:

Can we get some quotes from it?

Tom:

I guess he read from a lot of books, like children's books and things like that.

Myke:

Of course. Naturally. And then

Tom:

claimed the federal government had no constitutional authority. Oh, so called. He was using the so called language then. This so called civil rights program is unconstitutional. I'm so happy that so called is still so

Myke:

called journalists.

Tom:

Right. Everything is so called. So called vaccine. No. This chat GPT didn't give me anything great.

Tom:

So called. I we're think

Myke:

so called artificial intelligence.

Tom:

It didn't say anything about a chainsaw, no Sig Heils. It's not like boring.

Myke:

What, what was the fine fella's name again?

Tom:

Strom Thurmond, s t r o m, Thurmond. Big racist, if I remember right. I mean, obviously, he was arguing against the civil rights, but my understanding is, like, he's got history, like, this ugly history, I think. Let's see his Wikipedia.

Myke:

I think I'm

Tom:

Yeah.

Myke:

You have the official record here.

Tom:

Armstrong, how'd you hit his Wikipedia?

Myke:

Well, I think I have, like, record of of that, like, session. Proceedings and debate of the eighty fifth congress first session volume one zero three part 12, 08/22/1957.

Tom:

Good call. You went straight to it.

Myke:

To 08/30/1957. Unfortunately, it is not in text. It is a photo Shit.

Tom:

Surely, that's been converted in some way shape or form.

Myke:

Certainly. Has to it.

Tom:

Where'd you find it? So what session was that? Here. Wait. Wait.

Tom:

Wait. Wait. Let's see if chat GBT can just do that for me.

Myke:

Just sent you the PDF. Cover page will give you the deets. Oh, look at

Tom:

look at those fonts. That's really that's cool.

Myke:

I know. It's yep. It's quite wild to see this.

Tom:

Well, did you know? So one time I got, I got really interested in old New York Times. So I looked up the the images of the day the Titanic, went under. You can see the original print and all that kind of stuff and see all the context because there's a lot of political, arguments in it as well at the time. So you could see this thing about that Titanic, then you see this other political stuff.

Tom:

It's actually kind of interesting to see those rags.

Myke:

You're right. I bet that is

Myke:

really cool. Yeah.

Tom:

Yeah. You get this you get this literally this snapshot of what, you know, life was like at the time.

Myke:

Right. Right. Right. Right. Because I mean, right now it's Wait.

Myke:

That audio not come through?

Tom:

I cut something. Yep. No. Okay. It was a sigh, though.

Tom:

I can't read this, Mike. It's too small. Ugh.

Myke:

Yep. Tom, you remember that topic for event surf, the whole bit rot concept?

Tom:

No. Bring it back up.

Myke:

I will do a horrible job. Oh. You know, do it doing it doing it justice, but but the whole thing of can you imagine five hundred years from now, let alone two thousand, 2,000 or more, trying to pull up, you know, Word documents from Windows 95 just in the same way, you know, we're trying to this was not readily available whatsoever. Right? We just searched for it.

Myke:

Like, there's no great transcript of this.

Tom:

Yeah. Not that What a fantastic thought. Right.

Myke:

Yeah. So How do so is there

Tom:

an effort to preserve the translators of the software in a way that will will be interpretable in the future?

Myke:

Well, I I hope so. So the, vent surf is, I I believe, like, referred to as, you know, godfather of the Internet, know, not to be confused with well, what's his butt? I can't remember it. I kept getting missing the joke there. Know, whatever.

Myke:

Hello? What the freak? Not not Bob Dole. Al. Who's no Al.

Myke:

Al Gore? Al Gore. Yeah. There we go.

Tom:

Yeah.

Myke:

So so yeah. He's known as the godfather of the Internet, not to be confused with Al Gore or or anything like that. So I heard VentSurf talk at a search engine marketing conference, and nobody like, search engine nerds, like, didn't give a rip about this this guy talking this presentation. I'm like, shut

Bobby:

the whole thing up.

Myke:

What? And he was talking about this topic of bit rot, and since I heard that, I've not been able to stop thinking about it. And he's Oh.

Bobby:

At the time,

Myke:

he was talking about his work on interplanetary protocol. So I believe, yeah, TCPIP was was some of his work if I'm not Oh. Poorly citing it.

Tom:

It's Bill. It's Bill. Well, who is this guy? VintSurf? You said VintSurf?

Tom:

And how do I not know who VintSurf is?

Myke:

VintSurf, v I n t c e r f. VintSurf.

Tom:

VintSurf. VintSurf. What's his name? Okay.

Myke:

One of he's the real

Tom:

deal. The internet.

Myke:

Oh, yeah. The the the real deal. Yes. Exactly. Yeah.

Myke:

So he the Internet.

Myke:

Yeah. Yep. So he was talking about this. This would have been, I guess, like, $2,008.09 kind

Myke:

of thing that that he was giving this this talk. So yeah. I mean, it's serious stuff. I don't know where he's at on it or or what, but yep.

Tom:

Yeah. But So here we are. Yeah. I'm trying to get this That it was some real effort or, I mean, what the people were making effort into making things happen? Or Yeah.

Tom:

I haven't because I've thought about this a few times. I mean, not deeply, but, yeah, of course, this is a a concern.

Myke:

Mhmm. Yeah. I reckon he's probably got some serious efforts going on. It's worth digging into, I suppose.

Tom:

That's fascinating. That's fascinating to think about Yep.

Myke:

You are I'm gonna try and see if we can get this damn thing converted here.

Tom:

Oh, hey. Test this real quick. Do you hear this? If I play do you hear that?

Myke:

Oh, goddamn. I hear it. The music? Oh. Yes.

Myke:

I could hear the music. Yep.

Tom:

Oh, okay. You hear it, but I don't. Okay. I was trying to see if I could route my stuff out to this. So I also need to then route that to my headphones.

Tom:

I've I've learned some interesting tools for audio routing.

Myke:

I bet you have. Yeah. I've tried

Tom:

black hole is a big part of it and then there's Yachty something or else or other. Yeny.

Myke:

Lil Lil Yachty?

Tom:

Maybe that's what it is. Route the audio. Lodiacast. Okay. So this is audio cast.

Tom:

So then I can take that that to my headphones. Oh, I hear it now too. Cool. Yes. I hear it now too.

Tom:

Good. That did not change anything for you. Correct? Do you is it loud or is it kinda quiet?

Myke:

No. It's quiet. I'm guessing if I'm wondering if that's just not, you know, the the live processing just being poor. I bet it sounds normal on the on the actual production.

Bobby:

Let me

Tom:

turn it up here. Woah. Woah.

Myke:

Now it's a lot louder.

Tom:

It's kinda quiet. It's not.

Myke:

It's I can, like, clearly hear it now, whereas it was probably, like, 25% before.

Tom:

Is this a is this a comfortable level right here, or is it too quiet?

Myke:

It's a good level. Yeah.

Tom:

So like if I were to play a video in the background, like if like if I wanted to pull something up on YouTube, what volume would you want to do? Like like this?

Myke:

No. You'd wanna take it down by like at least 50%.

Tom:

K. Around here.

Myke:

Are you set yeah. And are you saying, like, you want to kinda be able to be heard with the video?

Tom:

Not necessarily, but it's me being able to hear it here too. For me, it's very quiet if I set that level. So I just wanted to kinda know what I should expect to hear compared to what you're hearing.

Myke:

If you wanted me to hear the video, then where you were previously at was good. But if you were wanting to be heard in tandem with the video, where you're at now is better.

Tom:

Gotcha. Okay.

Myke:

Cool. Cool. Cool.

Tom:

Alright. Yeah. So this is good stuff. I should turn that up for myself. Good shit.

Myke:

God, Tom. You're gonna demonetize us now.

Tom:

Oh, yeah. No. I probably did just fuck it, didn't I?

Myke:

Wait. So so similarly, can you hear this then?

Tom:

Nothing yet. Nothing? Not yet. And I I set my Mac mic to, the RODECaster video secondary. I don't I don't know what you'll have.

Myke:

How about this?

Tom:

You don't hear anything?

Myke:

Oh, I know why. Hang on. Hang on. Hang on. Hang

Tom:

don't even hear you anymore. I think you're muted. Test.

Myke:

Test. I've been muted for a little while.

Tom:

Yeah. Test. Continue. Test. Test.

Myke:

That's fun. Test. Love fun editing this one.

Tom:

Well, even if we just get a couple of bites out of it, think it's just fun.

Myke:

Oh, we'll get some bites.

Tom:

I can't believe I learned about Vint Cerf. I didn't know anything about Vint Cerf.

Myke:

I've told you about him. You probably just don't remember the name.

Tom:

Oh, definitely.

Myke:

Even though it's the coolest name in the world.

Tom:

VintSurf. Vintin. Vintin Gray Surf.

Myke:

Dude is an all around badass. That's all there is to it. Tom, see if you can find some PDF to text PDF to text thing.

Tom:

That's what I was looking for.

Myke:

It's hard to do things and pod.

Tom:

Well, nice thing is that you can, I guess, hopefully just cut out a lot of the dead space?

Myke:

Yeah. Even has the recognizer on there, but it's still there's something to the mental aspect of

Tom:

it. Yeah. So obviously, you know, we can roll a a bit more if we, you know, kind of pre thought. For me anyway, it requires a bit more pre thought to have some things kind of warmed up Mhmm. Before I before I roll.

Myke:

That's why we need a damn producer.

Tom:

Kendra. Kendra can do everything.

Myke:

She can. We just gotta give her the direction. Then, you know, she gotta practice a bunch.

Tom:

Oh, I'll be super curious to see what Da Vinci does, with this video too. And I know Riverside's great, but I'm really kinda curious to see what DaVinci can do. Oh, as far as,

Myke:

like, the quality enhancements and such? Or does it have, like, smart editing capabilities and, like, figuring out

Tom:

I think so. Yeah.

Myke:

Dead space and shit?

Tom:

I that's what I'd like to see.

Myke:

No one had that kind of ability.

Tom:

Because I know some of just the the timeline editors and all that stuff, are pretty nice.

Myke:

Right. I

Tom:

hate all these PDF converters online that just suck.

Myke:

They're all just nasty.

Tom:

OCR to text. Fuck. Here.

Myke:

Just freaking put in your credit card to use this freeware. ChatGPT though, it is not, it's not very impressive with ability. With

Tom:

the OCR?

Myke:

Or or at least I've given it in a video and said give me, you know, transcribe the the text. I can't do that.

Tom:

I can't do that, Mike. Oh, WikiSource offers a transcription of his speech. Woah. WikiSource.

Bobby:

Got it?

Tom:

So what it says, it says they've got a trans yep. There it is.

Myke:

Oh. Oh,

Tom:

yes. I think so. Just confirming this is the one. Yep. Trump Thurman filibuster.

Tom:

Yeah.

Myke:

Here we go. Now now we're in action. Now GPT will be off to the races.

Tom:

Yeah. Here, let's make a let's make a chat GPT bot out of it. What do we call those? Chat PT, when you create your own thingadoo.

Myke:

It's just a custom GPT.

Tom:

Custom. Are you making one?

Myke:

For what? For that speech. Well, you don't need to. I'm just private.

Tom:

Say again?

Myke:

I really only do custom GPT if I'm doing private stuff.

Tom:

Oh. Well, what do you do if you wanna load a resource up like this and, like, have it be the base of your your content? That's kinda what

Myke:

I I just opened, like, four o. Open four o and then give your prompt the document. Oh, I always think that it get

Tom:

it runs into limits on, like, words of the that if you do a custom GPT, that it'll it'll do more of the body rather than my understanding and my thought is that if you just load all that text in the front end is that it it I think it overruns the buffer, and it doesn't keep the full document in context. Now I could be wrong about that. That's my current

Myke:

It probably changed yesterday.

Tom:

Oh, it's so so hard to know.

Myke:

They they also have a new thing that I saw recently was projects. And so Projects? If what you are saying is remotely true, projects must be the thing that solves that problem. Oh. Because

Tom:

I do see projects. Project.

Myke:

Yeah. You can upload documents and basically it retains that in its memory buffer. That's kind of the whole point. And you can keep adding, like, new chats with, you know, the context of the project.

Tom:

Oh, I think this is exactly probably what I thought the other was then.

Myke:

Right.

Tom:

At at least what I hope was hoping. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. That's kinda what I was thinking it was doing.

Tom:

Okay. Well, this is good then.

Myke:

Which are they're both similar things, I suppose.

Tom:

Yeah. But this sounds like it's more geared toward what, I guess, I was thinking.

Myke:

A little bit more transactional.

Tom:

Yeah. Yeah. I want this I want the content that I load to be, like, the core topic of the whole thing. I don't want it using a bunch of Internet data. I want it to I want it to analyze this document.

Tom:

I wanna get sentiment analysis out of it. I wanna get all the good stuff and be focused on this Word.

Myke:

That's good. Although I have seen because I started using the projects quite a bit. I'm like, this is cool. And now I don't know how to get to anything but the first four projects. The other ones just keep disappearing.

Myke:

Like, don't know how to get I've clicked a couple of buttons. I don't see it and haven't cared enough to click more buttons. But

Tom:

Why is my save folder like this now? I don't have desktop as a shortcut anymore. Hey. What are you reading right now?

Myke:

I am reading The Marriage Project.

Tom:

Think about it.

Myke:

Which is weird you would even ask me at the time I'm actually reading something something because it's been a long time since I've read something. And Shauna thought I would really like it. And so the last book she said that about, I really loved. And it kicked off reading for me a lot. So I'm excited.

Myke:

I I just started ripping into it. I'm like 80 pages in which takes me like three weeks, but so far it's pretty cool. It's, I do a horrible job of giving a synopsis, but so far this takes place in a not so distant future from our own where there's a social project going on. I think it's taking place in, like, Britain or something maybe. There's a social project going on that the government is sponsoring that if you get married and you go into basically this marriage project, basically saying we're gonna be this happy couple and live together and and not get divorced.

Myke:

And by the way, we're also going to allow you to record audio of us twenty four seven. And if there is ever any issues or you perceive that there may be any issues, you can intervene in our marriage to make sure that everything's on track and that we're good and safe together. And in return, you also get a bunch of financial assistance. So they'll take care of your health insurance. I think you get maybe even like a stipend.

Myke:

And, yeah, it's pretty interesting so far. And so

Tom:

each Interesting.

Myke:

Yeah. Each each chapter so far is is just kind of introducing, you know, different characters and revisiting a few. Same one so far, but yeah. It's pretty cool. I'm digging it.

Tom:

When was the book written?

Myke:

I think it's pretty new.

Tom:

Really? Hopefully, I get the title. Marriage Project 21

Myke:

The Marriage Project. Maybe I'm wrong. I thought that was the title. This is highly embarrassing. I can't find the freaking hang on.

Tom:

Did you get the title wrong?

Myke:

I have to have. Maybe it was Marriage Act?

Tom:

Oh, Marriage Act. Oh, Break Your Vows, Pay the Price, The Marriage Act.

Myke:

Yeah. That's it. Damn it. Okay. That sucks.

Myke:

That was such a good Well, no. No. No. We'll do a good edit here. Well I'm reading

Tom:

this book called We'll leave that part out.

Myke:

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'll just we'll get the audio a bit. So reading this book called The Marriage Act.

Myke:

There. I'm gonna use that later. But, yeah, otherwise, we'll

Bobby:

here here

Myke:

we'll do the we'll do the here we'll do the here I'll do the mark clip here where we edited it. We'll we'll easily be able to fix that.

Tom:

Marriage act.

Myke:

The rest of it. Yeah. The Marriage Act. Marriage act. Say project?

Tom:

Project. Yep.

Myke:

It's the marriage This the marriage act?

Tom:

Well, I kept well, I kept looking for it. Was like, I'm interested in seeing the synopsis of this, I can't find it.

Myke:

Project act. Come on. The Alan Parsons project.

Tom:

I've got this I've this Rode microphone over here. But it's so big, Mike. It's a great microphone. I mean, you you got some some really great equipment. It's right in the middle of the thing.

Tom:

I'm constantly kind of looking around in here.

Myke:

So so I so I've got this. I'm using this mic. And it it kills me. So I have to cock it off to an to an angle because I can't stand it being flush just just center line of sight. I can't.

Tom:

Yeah. This is too much. I mean, this is really interesting stuff, but this is there's equipment all around. It's tough. Yeah.

Tom:

Yep. It feels claustrophobic. It's like you're

Myke:

It is.

Tom:

A cockpit kind of a thing. Right? It's like, I'm in. I climb into the thing and I'm ready to go.

Myke:

That's I have had the exact same thought and visual. And so a lot of time has been spent figuring out how to declaustrophobize it.

Tom:

I see.

Myke:

Because I've had I've had the same damn feeling and feeling too boxed in. It's it's brutal. Yep.

Tom:

That makes sense. You've got a super nice space now.

Myke:

Working on it. It's always evolving.

Tom:

Background there too.

Myke:

Oh, yeah. Slowly coming along. But it's gotta be one of my favorite things though, is just continually evolving a space in just the tiniest amounts. It's just so fun.

Tom:

Constant nesting a little bit?

Myke:

Yes. Exactly. A constant nest. That's why men hunt and women nest. Boo.

Myke:

Hiss. So all this yeah. The the description. Yeah. The near future.

Myke:

Look at this. It's as if I freaking read the the description of it. The near future. A right wing government believes it has the answer to society's ills. The Sanctity of Marriage Act, which actively encourage marriage as the norm, punishing those who choose to remain single.

Myke:

But four couples are about to discover just how impossible relationships can be when the government is monitoring every aspect of our personal lives, monitoring every word, every minor disagreement, and will use every tool in its arsenal to ensure everyone will love, honor, and obey. Man, I didn't even know it was getting that thick. It's yeah. It's setting up quite nice.

Tom:

Yeah. That's fantastic what, this political environment over these last few years is inspiring. This is some really good literature. Yeah. I'm glad they're I'm glad they're finding inspiration.

Myke:

There's no better time to figure out how to read books, yo. Read a book, bitch.

Tom:

It does yes. This these last, what, eight weeks? How how long are we into this thing? Two months?

Myke:

Good lord. Well, we're just about at a hundred days, I suppose.

Tom:

So. Really? Oh, yeah. I guess you're

Myke:

Well, yeah. Oh, it's April 3.

Tom:

It's always it's January 21, though. Right? So January 21 analysis?

Myke:

Yeah. Yeah. Okay.

Tom:

I thought it was

Myke:

earlier. Yep. Oh, it feels so much longer.

Tom:

Holy It feels like two years already. So when people talk about waiting for the midterms, I just don't have any I guess I don't have any way to think that that's a waitable thing. I don't know. Seems like that's ten years from now.

Myke:

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It does. Yeah.

Myke:

It seems impossibly far.

Tom:

I of of how things are going. Right? So many things are going so fast right now, and it just feels like you're being overrun.

Myke:

Yeah. And that has to be this has to be unprecedented. Right? As far as the rate with which they are succeeding at, making just utter chaos of things. I don't think anything's ever been experienced this aggressive, has it?

Myke:

Well, the the last thing that I

Tom:

know of is that everybody always compares this to, right, the fall of Germany. And and they they had a benchmark of some fifty seven days, I think, was was when something started and then kind of officially was the new norm. So I don't know. That's what they compare it to. I feel like it's a new norm every day.

Tom:

Yeah.

Myke:

We've, I didn't like, I don't I don't think we have had, like, a true, like, honest, candid, like, sober conversation, or rather sobering conversation with with, like, a with a real Trumper.

Tom:

Yeah. I'm I'm trying to.

Myke:

Still I still really, really want that. Because beyond beyond the the flare, beyond the, you know, the the orange dust and and all of it. Like, we there has to be some level that we can have a real conversation. Right? Other than than than just the the horseshit to to truly try and get a beat on this.

Myke:

Like, that that bit that I sent on the radio this morning, right, the the the caller in just called in to say, quite simply and emphatically, hey. I just called to call in and and just wanna say if the Democrats are upset, I know Trump's doing something right. I just called in to say that. I mean, that that was it. Yeah.

Myke:

And, like, beyond beyond that it is the benchmark, but but beyond that, because there is conversation beyond that. Right? That that's I get it. Right? They're all having fun and, like, still celebrating, like, after their freaking sports team won or something.

Myke:

Like, I get it. I understand that side of it. But got once you talk past that, are they, like, truly think this is cool and okay?

Tom:

So I've got a buddy that I was in the Marine Corps with, and I like this guy a lot. But I think he's a he's a pretty hardcore trumper. I say hardcore. He he's he's fully in, but I don't know that he's trample trample little lazy rageous or MAGA or whatever. I don't know.

Tom:

Not not how do you describe people like this where, he's not I don't think out there raging with the flags and doing all that kind of stuff, but he's he's toeing the line solid. Yeah. You know what I mean? There's there's a difference.

Myke:

No. You're there is a difference. Yeah. Because, like, the the radio listener I just I just described, like, I I just generally refer to that as MAGA. Like, is just Trumpistan.

Myke:

Right? And then then there's what you're explaining where, yeah, they, you know, whatever. I I think what you're explaining anyways of they voted for Trump. They they they support him and and, know, they're they're generally have good things to say and and have reasonable tone when they're conversing. They're not just flagrant and and Yeah.

Myke:

You

Tom:

know Yeah.

Myke:

Just insane. Is that what you're saying? Is that what you're Yeah. Yeah. Don't I don't have a term for them.

Myke:

I I don't, but you're right. There's a difference.

Tom:

I have some people that I talk to that you know me, so I I have conversations, and I'm pretty pointed. I've I've gotten to the point where I I think I'm just gonna say what I think is wrong and and put it out there without trying to kinda soften it or think about Mhmm. Nuance because I think it it it hides the meaning that that you're trying to describe. So, anyways, I'm pretty pointed recently, and I know people think that's really hostile. But a lot of times, I've got some people that come back and simply it doesn't make a difference what I say or how neutral it is or or anything like that.

Tom:

You know, you're only coming on here when you're seeing a message you don't like or whatever. And I say, well, really, I'm only on here every time I see something that I think is propaganda. Right? I I think that's propagandistic. Here's what I think is wrong with that.

Tom:

What do you think? And, you know, I get the, what do you know? Do you ever even face the facts and all that kind of stuff? But I do have other people that, yes, will simply say, I don't give a shit about Ukraine. Right?

Tom:

I'm not necessarily MAGA, and I'm not saying some all the MAGA stuff, but it's like, I really don't give a shit about Ukraine. Dems are stupid, but maybe that doesn't even describe it either. Yeah. Maybe it is MAGA. Fuck.

Tom:

I don't know. He he seems more reasonable.

Myke:

Yeah. I just wanna talk. Trying to

Tom:

be super charitable. I don't know. I've got a couple of people that I occasionally, hit online. I don't know. I'd really be curious to hit Bobby.

Tom:

I have to cut that out. I'd be really curious to hit Bobby Vickers up because I think that he leans right, but he's also pretty measured. You know, he's also pretty measured, but I'm pretty sure he's full right.

Bobby:

Gonna text him.

Tom:

I could be wrong.

Myke:

No. I mean, no. He's I think he's generally right. Yeah. Yeah.

Myke:

I mean, he lives in Texas for God's sake. Come on. Yeah. I guess we live in Missouri. I mean, what the hell are we saying?

Tom:

But know, I think he's super measured in in this conversation. Conversation.

Myke:

Of course. Yeah. And and he'd be great to talk to because, yeah, I think I think he generally supports Trump and is also a very reasonable person and pleasant entirely to speak with. See if he's around.

Tom:

Hell, I mean, Craig O'Dear is probably on. Not not that he's right wing, but he could probably attract some people that might be interested in engaging. I know that he has contacts with a little bit with quite a bit more politically connected people.

Myke:

Send a message. Send a message. Let's see if we can get a panel going.

Tom:

Send a message to Craig. He's probably he's probably online. Alright. That's Craig. I'd really like to talk to Mike Stelzer sometime and hear his story.

Tom:

But he obviously is left leaning right now. But I'd tell you the truth, would love to talk with him sometime. Same here. I can see this platform being great for that. I mean, I wanna we I'd wanna meet for coffee.

Tom:

This is the same kind of thing. We could meet here and just just be a coffee session. You know what I mean? I wanna know what got him I wanna know what got Michael inspired, because I look up to him quite a bit. He's a he's a good man.

Tom:

And I always assumed that he was a little bit more right leaning. I don't know. Maybe that was just because I didn't know him.

Myke:

Just because he's rough? Yeah. He's he's yeah. He works with his hands.

Tom:

He works with his hands. Right.

Bobby:

But obviously

Myke:

he's a right winger.

Tom:

He but obviously, he's brilliant too, though. So Mhmm. You know, he's known for his his creativity.

Myke:

Don't know much about the guy, but I have seen a bit of his his, artwork. Mhmm. And it's freaking awesome.

Tom:

It is awesome.

Myke:

I wanna do what he does. That that is my

Tom:

life. Exactly. I remember when he started taking welding classes. I think it was, maybe at OTC. You know, he was just kinda started getting into the the metalworking.

Tom:

And then, obviously, it's amazing work now.

Myke:

Yeah. No kidding. He, he hooked us up with the Bobby's in the house.

Bobby:

What? Hey, guys. How are doing?

Tom:

How are you, man?

Myke:

So good. But, Bobby, what do you think of this? We are desperate and we're the the whole point of the show, obviously, is to talk with people of differing opinions than us. And we've had one guest on. He was the former speaker of the house in Missouri.

Myke:

He was our well, we've only ever had two guests. He was our first. And then the second, was, the Unitarian Universalist Church. We had them on and that was an amazing conversation definitely. But you know, we were we were kind of right along there with them.

Myke:

So there weren't too many dissenting lines, you know, to to really jump into there. So we we were sitting here. We're like, let's just get on tonight and just record something on our own. We'll get some sound bites, whatever the hell. Just have something.

Myke:

And we were sitting in here going, damn it. No. We wanna talk to people. And so wanted to see if you were down, but wanted to even if before we even, like, go anywhere. You're, like I mean, like, you're you're generally a Trump supporter.

Myke:

Yeah? Is am I I'm not wrong in that.

Bobby:

Man.

Myke:

Are we talking to even the right person? Like, are do we have dissenting lines?

Bobby:

Yeah. So I think I I I'm okay with being and supporting a contrarian, from a a from from a, let's say, policy perspective. I think morally, I would never look as a president as being, like, a North Star for me. Like, I would never model myself after, like, I wanna be like JFK. He was a philanderer and a terrible human.

Myke:

Mhmm. Yeah. Yeah.

Bobby:

There are lots of those those things. So I think when when people say Trump supporter, they build this all encompassing view of a person, and the first thing that they latch onto is, like, the thing they dislike the most, and then they associate that person with that thing when that might not even be the thing.

Myke:

Do you know the name of our show? I we that that you're speak you're preaching to the choir. Like, we get this. Yeah.

Bobby:

Yeah. Yeah. So so here's the thing. And I've always said this, and and most people don't think this way, but and Tom and I talked about this a little bit. Like, I think whoever's in office, you still have to focus on what you do in your household.

Bobby:

I think so many things happen outside of your control that if you're you just take care of what you can control, do the best that you can do, like, you're gonna go a certain direction. Right? If you sit back and wait or want to blame, you can always find somebody else to blame. You can always look at a policy. There's always something that you can point to, and that'd be the cause of some reason in your life that you're not where you wanna be.

Bobby:

So for me, I'm just always, like, inward looking and that I'll do the best that I can while politicians, that's their job. So I would say that, again, I wouldn't want to raise my children to be like Donald Trump. I wouldn't want, my sons to grow up to be like him as a person. But from a policy perspective and I don't know a lot about policy. I I've never studied graduate school.

Bobby:

I'd I didn't I'm not a lawyer, but I'm okay with somebody doing something different because, really, America is built on doing things differently. Technology, innovation, exploration, all of that has just been doing something different than the status quo. So I'm okay with that. So that's probably where I lie. I'm not a I don't hate people like anybody.

Myke:

Good.

Bobby:

So so so I just I'm just okay with somebody being a contrarian.

Myke:

Cool. So we should talk because, like and this is a really easy thing for me. Like, hate Donald Trump with, like, every fiber of my being, which is a really weird thing to say because I don't really hate anything. And so, like, it's it's so I can I can separate from, like, the actual emotion from that Yeah? Because, like, I just think he's abhorrent.

Myke:

Right? And so it's very easy for me to step outside of that because I've been so unattached from that emotion for many years now. And what I truly want to do, and I mean, like, truly, is I want to talk to people who, policy wise perfect. Policy wise, like, have alignment with him, and I really wanna talk about that because just like you said, I don't fucking know policy. I'm not a lawyer.

Myke:

My god. I spend all my time just doing technology stuff. Like, that's really all I know in life. But, but, like, I'm also not stupid. Right?

Myke:

And, like, I know how to recognize things and see patterns and just have a general understanding of systems. And I can't look around and not see, like, utter stupidity and, like, insanity and, like, what the fuck is going on? And, like, I'm ready to be convinced that, like, settle down, Mike. Here's why. Like, here's here's what you need to know, And, like, I truly cannot find anybody to engage in that kind of conversation.

Myke:

And that's what Tom and I have been searching for for so long, and that's kind of the whole idea of the show is, like, outside of the rhetoric, set that shit aside. Right? Because, like, left wing, right wing, we get it. This dance is as old as time itself. Let's do away with that and, like, just talk real.

Myke:

Are tariffs good? Let's talk about it.

Tom:

Well, if Like me

Myke:

Tom, go for it. Let me

Tom:

yeah. Let me jump in real quick because I think this is this is the point that I think I'm interested in with Bobby too because, Mike, you're you're talking about being and kinda feeling unmoored. Right? I mean, like, things are so tumultuous and so abnormal, and the division is so strong that it feels like I mean, it feels you feel unmoored. Like, this world can't be normal.

Tom:

Right? I mean, is this normal? Like, is this good? And and and probably a lot of angst. Am I characterizing that correctly?

Myke:

To a certain extent. I don't I don't know that angst would be a totally accurate word, and and I think the unmoored is is probably more just from personal settling down over the past few years for me and just, like, being able to just separate more from, like, reactionary type type, you know, things. But but you're not wrong either because I to to the point of, like, I can't help but look around and go, I feel like I'm taking crazy pills because Yeah. Like, this is too insane.

Tom:

Yeah. Yeah. That that's exactly the feeling is that things seem so abnormal that it's fear for what is likely to come because it seems like these are untested waters, and that we really don't know how catastrophic this kind of thing could be. And then, Bobby, when when you say something like, you know, I focus on me, you you seem unperturbed. I guess maybe that's the question is, are you perturbed?

Tom:

Are you concerned? How do you deal with your level of concern? Right? It's more about view of the nation. And you may not you may not know or may not care at more

Myke:

Or think there's any concerns.

Tom:

Yeah. Exactly. You may not even

Myke:

because you're a

Bobby:

certain yes. Right. Yeah. So I don't think anything is new. Right?

Bobby:

I think whatever wave that is being ridden will go up and will come down. I think economics is a pendulum. I think society is a pendulum. There are times that have been better. There are times that have been worse.

Bobby:

If you would ask yourself, would you rather be alive now or two hundred years ago? Nobody would say two hundred years ago. But two hundred years ago, it was the worst that it could have ever been. Right? Supposedly.

Bobby:

So I think no matter what stage you find yourself in, I just think it's hard to, like, think that it's that bad. Because in the in the grand scheme of things, like, you have no idea what it was like a 100 ago. Like, you you you so so and then the other thing too is, like, it's interesting, Mike, that the first thing you said was how much you hate this person. Mhmm. And it's like Yes.

Bobby:

You come from, like, this, like, guttural place where

Myke:

Yes.

Bobby:

I don't hate.

Myke:

Yes. Visceral. Visceral.

Bobby:

Like like Yep. Visceral hate. And I would be curious, like, what is it about somebody that makes you hate them? And then how do those character traits show up in other places? And do you feel the same level level of hate towards those people?

Bobby:

Mhmm. Because I I just don't know what it is.

Myke:

No. That's perfect because I don't know if you remember what I said right after that. As I said, which is very weird for me because I don't hate anything

Bobby:

Yeah.

Myke:

Is what I said right after that. So, yes, it has been a thing that I've spent years and years thinking about and analyzing and truly wondering where that feeling comes from, and and and I've figured it out. I truly believe that Donald Trump is perhaps one of the most immoral people to grace planet Earth. And, like, I don't mean that hyperbolic or or I like, we can go there, but but I just wanna say, like, it would be hard to figure out where to even begin. And and I can pick a starting point.

Myke:

But, like, what I'm not gonna do is say, like, this and that and this and, you know, grab by the pussy and, know, like, I'd like I I'm not gonna, like, rattle them off. But, I mean, if if you are genuinely curious in that question, we can go there.

Bobby:

Yeah. So so so if it's like, if it's adultery, like,

Myke:

is that the tip of spear? I'm not even talking that simple. Nope. Not even that simple.

Bobby:

Yeah. Yeah.

Myke:

Mhmm. So here's one thing that gets me the most, and this is like the one that always comes to mind is, you know, that visceralness which I spoke when I said, like, I hate him with every ounce of of my being is because that to me is how he comes off. Most times when I see him speaking, particularly, like, against anything or anyone, not when he's having a jolly time and, you know, whatever. But this man, like, truly spews hatred. Like, you can see it in the way he talks about things that he doesn't like.

Myke:

And you could say, like, well, what what what bit? And, like, if if we want, I can superimpose here, like, at least 600 sound bites of what I'm referring to. Like, if if you ask, like, what are you what are you talking about? So, like, we can pause there and say, like, do you do you know what I'm talking about? Or would you, like, truly be like, no.

Myke:

He's not spiteful in in his, like, tone or face or, like

Bobby:

I think all of that is true. Right? You've seen him, like, when somebody asks him a question he doesn't like. He's dismissive, disrespectful. I I've seen him mock different types of people, in response to that.

Bobby:

Yeah. Yeah. I've well documented.

Myke:

So so that's like that's number the I would say that's like so when you ask me, like, that would be the first thing because that's the one that always bubbles up is like kind of a physical feeling of like

Bobby:

That injustice.

Myke:

I trust my intuition of people and like I do have a I feel a pretty keen intuition of people. And like that is the epitome of what I distrust most in life. And, like like you said earlier, not who I'd want my son to be, not who I'd want my daughters to be around, certainly not anyone I'd like to leave my wife in company of, and certainly not somebody I'd be proud to be, like, hanging around or seen hanging around, like, all of those things. Just so that's number one. That's that's tip of the iceberg.

Myke:

Yeah. Tip of the iceberg.

Bobby:

Bully behavior kind of one zero one, honestly. Like, that that's because that's a bully thing. Right? Anything that's different than you

Tom:

It's more than that, though. So so it's one thing here's the nuance, I think, is because it's not it's not just bully behavior. Because I can see somebody who is a bully and say they are a terrible person. This is different, because this is somebody who is using that influence that they have to inspire that and to normalize that in others. I think

Bobby:

that's more But isn't that what everyone does that's in a position of power? Is they try to normalize

Myke:

the world

Bobby:

for you for everyone else?

Myke:

Hang on. Sure. Hang on. On. Before we go anywhere, do we want to allow whataboutisms?

Myke:

And and that's a question for all of us. Like, do we want to allow the isn't that what they all do? Do we want to allow

Tom:

that kind

Myke:

of sidetracking? That is fair. That's a good I hate

Tom:

that sidetrack. It is a it is a whataboutism.

Bobby:

Yeah. Well, and it's made right

Myke:

so we're talking about Donald Trump. We are, I mean, we are talking about Donald Trump.

Bobby:

Sure. Sure. Yeah. I mean, I I think that everything you're saying makes I mean, that's true. Right?

Bobby:

I don't think anybody that's a thinking person could try to say and justify any of that. Like

Tom:

Yeah.

Bobby:

Yeah. You're you're right.

Myke:

K. Yeah. So so to the point of why I think he's, like, just I mean, that that's point one. And I don't like, I have more more points, but but maybe let's talk about the level of that. Because because to the what about ism point, you're correct.

Myke:

That I mean, these are character traits of every politician and every psychopathic CEO, you know, out there, and and power whatever. Like, so these are not uncommon traits. But the thing that is new here is is a couple of things. One, the level and just emboldened behavior in with which it's happening. And two, a total lack of concern about it, not just from the electorate, but also from the ins from the politicians.

Myke:

Like so, like, that's there's always kind of been this holding boundary of, you know, politicians doing their politician thing. And I get it, like, politics. Right? But but I think that's the reason this is so alarming is now we've got outside private life influencing public policy now with stuff. Right?

Myke:

So it's just this, like, instantaneous explosion of of everything happening at once. And if you'd I don't think we would disagree with that. Right? Like, this is a very potent time. Right?

Bobby:

I mean, you could you could say that. Sure.

Myke:

Well, it's rich with activity. Right?

Bobby:

Yeah.

Myke:

Change, new. I mean, like, it's it's all I mean, Republicans are winning left and right. Right? Like, I mean, this is all new. I mean, people buying social networks and then being in charge of of massive this is all new.

Myke:

This is all new territory. Right?

Bobby:

Mhmm. Well, I mean, it's it's not new. No. It's a new medium. It's a new medium.

Bobby:

Who do you say I mean

Tom:

Well

Bobby:

So I think we could go back and look and say who used to own all the newspapers, and I would say that those are probably concentrated to a few people.

Myke:

I don't wanna hyper focus on just that one thing, like who owns. Like, I'm just saying But what I'm saying everything. Like, it's It's

Bobby:

the medium is new. The messages aren't new.

Myke:

No. Not the messages. No. I mean, messages aren't new, but the rate at which things are being changed is new.

Bobby:

Technology. Right? Sure. Things can happen faster now. They can reach further.

Bobby:

They can go faster. Yeah. I I

Myke:

Sorry. I think I got off track a

Bobby:

little bit. Mean.

Myke:

No. I I think I got off track a little bit. So Doge. Right? Doge coming in, ripping out, close that, cut that, fire them, close that, ship these people over there, like Yeah.

Myke:

That rate is all new. Right?

Bobby:

So here's a question

Myke:

Does

Bobby:

that I would ask because I don't know the answer. What about that is new? Are you talking about eliminating federal jobs? Because what

Myke:

you're Within, saying is like, three days. Within, like, three days. That's the rate is what I'm talking about here. The speed

Bobby:

But what are you comparing it to?

Myke:

Like Any other time in history of any other thing like this happening.

Bobby:

K. This quickly. But see, that's a blanket statement with nothing to support it. So in what period of time and how many changes and what are you comparing to?

Myke:

Because I I just don't

Bobby:

know what the baseline is. So you're saying that these things are happening fast compared to what? Compared to when? And how fast should they go? And then who's the who's the arbiter of fast?

Myke:

I'll give you all those details right now. So the rate of time, we'll say two months. So eight weeks. Eight weeks. So we'll say eight weeks, and then we'll say are we doing after?

Myke:

Point in nope. Nope. Nope. We'll say within any other point in history. So from now until any other point in recorded history.

Myke:

I I I kinda lose track of the years of the AD, BC, whatever. In recorded history, has there ever been a president that came in with an unappointed, official and shut down even one government agency or fired even one government employee, have hired media talent as their cabinet, even maybe more than one of that ever happening in history and time. Let me keep going. I'll keep digging.

Bobby:

Who normally is in charge of making HR decisions for government offices? Who's the because, again, I'm not a politician. I don't I don't know who normally decides who stays and goes. Is that typically an annual review process? Is it biannual?

Bobby:

Is it a committee?

Myke:

I don't know the I don't know either, but to the best of my knowledge, when new administrations come in, there's not full sale shutdowns with unknown people. Do and, like, I and I'd like I'll tell you the truth. I'd like I honestly don't care about the whole Elon stuff all that much. I mean, I do. Don't get me wrong.

Myke:

But I'm not hyper fixating on it because I think it's gonna I think it'll end soon enough, the the whole thing, and, like, whatever. So I'm not whatever. But the the thing that is most grating to me with the Elon thing and and I'd be willing even for the sake of this conversation to seed everything else Doge has done for just this one angle of the conversation because it's the thing that that the only thing I think about, it's the only thing I care about, is if this the shoe were on the other foot, that's what I can't stop thinking about is the hypocrisy. Right? Like, if Biden were doing this, if Kamala Harris were doing this, there's no way in which the conservative media would not be shitting their collective pants.

Myke:

Instead, when I tune in to my daily conservative radio listen, I hear nothing but, like, the ultimate gymnastics of bending over backwards to give, you know, grace and time and credit, you know, to this. And, like, media's gonna do what media's gonna do. I I get it. But, like, this is what I'm referring to, though, that it's at a new level of, like, they've always been hypocrites, but, like, this is so I can't believe ever everyone around me is this gullible. What is happening?

Myke:

Am I the one that's crazy here? Help me out, Bobby.

Bobby:

I think, things take time. I I mean, I I get that and I'm I'm not justifying anything because I don't know enough information to justify, and I'm not really clear on, your issue. The issue is that

Myke:

So it's you're doing it. You're actually doing it right now. So my issue is this. If if it were Biden or or Kamala that was doing as big of gestures as bringing in, I don't know, George Soros and, like, just put him unofficially in charge of gutting, you know, all these, churches and, you know, whatever. Like, right wing media would be going insane.

Myke:

Right? But but what I hear instead when I listen to right wing media is is we gotta give this time. I don't you know, we don't really know. We we gotta check this out. But if it if this if we're the other situation, it would be mass hysteria.

Myke:

And that's what I'm trying to, like, check within myself is like Yeah. I'm What's gonna like, I

Bobby:

I'm probably not your your guy because I wouldn't have mass hysteria one way or the other.

Myke:

Yeah. You're probably you may not be the guy, though. You're right. You you may not be.

Bobby:

It's too far, like so for example, I'm trying to think of something like the Affordable Care Act. It didn't bother me. I don't I I don't Yeah. That's a good example. DEI, the the transgenderism from Biden's, Obamacare, gay marriage, all of that stuff, like, I that's I'm not that.

Bobby:

And so I it's

Myke:

hard to

Bobby:

really say

Myke:

Nope. That. Hang on. Hang on. On.

Myke:

I hear you. Bad or indifferent. You're right. You're you're more akin to, like, us. Like, where it's just like, you fucking but let me ask you this.

Myke:

Do you think Please. Then if if if the shoe were kind of on the other foot here, right, if if Kamala had won the election and, like I said, plopped in George Soros in there and he's cutting off church funding and, you know, like, whatever, bringing back Planned Parenthood and, you know, to keep That stuff happens anyway. Do yeah. No. No.

Myke:

No. No. But do you agree that the people who do react to this, so like the right wing media sphere, would they be blowing their lid?

Bobby:

They would. That's their job. Mhmm. Their job is to cater to their base. Just like left wing media talks about how bad it is to save money.

Bobby:

Right wing media talks about how bad it is to have

Tom:

a one way to throw

Myke:

on this thing. Bring it on, Tom. You know what? Yeah.

Tom:

Well, I wanna throw a line on this because and, Bob, we've we've conversed a little bit before because what Mike is is bringing up is that you seem, in my mind, you you seem very separated from severity. Right? For you, it's, yep, normal cycle, normal thing, normal things. Yep. This is life.

Tom:

Focused on self. But it seems magnitude is not something that that that is a concern for you. And and I think that's what is a concern for us. And that I desperately wanna kinda get to that point where I can understand what is your magnitude? What is your feeling about these the magnitude of the shifts?

Tom:

And I'll I'll point it this way.

Bobby:

I can answer that for you whenever you're ready.

Tom:

Well, yeah, one second though, because for me, it gets down to rule of law. Right? At at the end of the day, I want to be living in a country that has a standard, that we can all live by. And and at the end, that's all there is to it. We have to have rule of law, at a foundation.

Tom:

So what tells me there's a magnitude shift is that, there's a there's a an injunction that a judge can put on on executive action. Right? These universal injunctions. And, you know, over the last several years, I mean, I think Obama had, 12 injunctions against him over his eight years.

Bobby:

Okay.

Tom:

Bush Bush had some whatever. And right now, there are 17, injunctions against Trump's executive actions.

Bobby:

That is good information. Like, that that is real like, this is what it was there.

Tom:

What was interested the in something measurable. Yeah.

Bobby:

Yeah. So so what happens when those come into play? Do they just reverse whatever the executive order was and that's the end of it, or do they countersue? I again, I I don't know the legal system, but what what happens? What's the outcome?

Tom:

Yeah. So so there's a little complex, and I'll I'll I'll illustrate what I think I know. Because there's a complaint, then there's some legitimate complaints about TROs because, I think their ability to be appealed is is painful, is what a little bit of concern is. And I think the right and really the left, anybody would have a legitimate argument of one one branch of government being able to kibosh another branch of government Right. With little recourse.

Tom:

They are appealable is my understanding. So, basically, it's a judge having the ability to cause an injunction when there are not necessarily two parties who are visible. So they can basically step in and cause the halting of, an executive, order

Bobby:

Who raises harm injunction?

Tom:

Somebody who's an amendment. Typically, it's going to be somebody raising it to a district. Right now, it's district judges are being, leveraged for this. So right. So somebody will say, hey.

Tom:

Here's a concern. Here's something going on. They'll present a case to a judge, and that judge will review that information, and they can say, yep. I'm going to issue an order, and it's a temporary injunction, basically, to halt

Bobby:

that action. I would I would bet that that for Obama, those were in conservative areas. In Bush, they were in liberal areas. In Biden, they were in conservative areas. And with Trump, they're probably liberal areas.

Bobby:

Because Uncertain. Your own party is not gonna raise that to that level. Right? So we could easily say that the more one side pushes, the the more the other side pushes back. Right?

Tom:

Tit for tat is is a good understanding of, yeah, how how things are played. Yeah.

Bobby:

Sure.

Tom:

I guess and that's exactly what I'm I'm illustrating is that this feels like not tit for tat. This feels like there's a legitimate attack on the legal system, on on people's valuing of the legal system.

Bobby:

By pushing out some of the executive orders that are being argued?

Tom:

Well, I think the reason the reason it's a concern is that it's questionable about if they're whether they're constitutional. Right? So it's so many executive orders that are potentially unconstitutional.

Bobby:

Okay.

Tom:

It's a significant increase that are being challenged because of the potential unconstitutionality.

Bobby:

Right. And what happens in terms of time frames, and do those things get turned back around? And then once they're done, they're they're done. Because, again, I think, just in general, like, somebody does something I don't like, I can argue it, but that doesn't mean that what they did was, again, there's a moral right and then there's legal. And so if if these things hold up in court, then that's kind of all there is to it.

Bobby:

I don't know why anybody would be upset. Like, no. The law worked. Like, that's a good thing. Yeah.

Bobby:

No matter what sides you're on. Right? Like, I think anybody that I don't know. I I just don't know that I'm I'm your guy. So here's kinda my worldview.

Bobby:

Right? Like, real real simple. Like, I grew up in a house where you could see the dirt floor underneath it. I had no father. I had no family.

Bobby:

It was me, my mom, my two sisters. I was poor, dirt poor. I went to school on Pell Grants. I went to school on scholarships. I did everything myself.

Bobby:

So I don't expect any help from, with the government with the Pell Grants. But, like, I'm just I am self reliant because I have to be, and because I feel like that is the way that I have control over my life because I had no control growing up. Right? Everything happened to me. I had no agency.

Bobby:

I could do nothing. Now I can. And so what happens and and I think this is true in third world countries. I think this is true in China. I think this is true in a lot of the world.

Bobby:

They're not worried about fighting social issues because they can't they don't have clean water. They can't their their children are dying of of this, that, and the other. And so for me, it's like, okay. So, like, you wanna paint some Tesla stores? Okay.

Bobby:

The people that bought a Tesla have insurance. The people that own the buildings have insurance. Like, all you're doing is making it harder for everybody else. But if that's the way that you want to be heard, then okay. That doesn't seem like the way I would do it.

Bobby:

And then, like, okay. You wanna cut budgets? Okay. You wanna cut funding? You wanna eliminate billions of dollars of waste?

Bobby:

Okay. So my my cousin is a GSA. And she spent twenty five years at the GSA. She has a master's degree from BU in mechanical engineering. She got fired because she managed buildings that the government owned that nobody went to, and she was responsible for their maintenance and efficiency.

Bobby:

She posted on Facebook, hey. I got fired. Anybody got another job? She'll get another job in the private sector because she's qualified. Right?

Bobby:

I mean, I don't I don't feel bad for people that lose their job. I've known people that get fired. It's part of it. So cost cutting, job cutting, if it's illegal, then it'll get overturned. If it's not overturned, then it's legal and you don't like it.

Bobby:

If you don't like it, you can't deal with it. Find something else to do or go spray paint a Tesla. I just I don't I don't have

Tom:

an issue.

Myke:

By the way, that's not the that's not the yeah. That

Tom:

we That's not the question.

Myke:

Hate talking about that stuff too. And that shit's stupid, like

Bobby:

But what is

Myke:

the question? We're with you, man.

Tom:

There there appears to be a significant increase in the magnitude of of unconstitutional activity. And the rhetoric coming from the right and from Trump and and his staff is that we need to actually undermine the rule of law and calling for impeachments of these judges and the ability for them to perform these injunctions.

Bobby:

And it

Tom:

seems to me that the changes that they have made in the justice department, and in the FBI will diminish the ability for typical, government agencies to, not attack the judicial system.

Bobby:

You need them all

Myke:

to work,

Bobby:

you know? You yeah. Say that again? Said, no. You you need everything to to have a counterbalance.

Bobby:

Right? If if one side is too strong or one angle is if you have no recourse, right, then I'm I'm with you. I mean, I think I

Tom:

And it and it seems to me that that two sides right now are very strong together, with with the legislative and the executive branch. They're they're pretty tight. And it seems to me that the last check on the system is the judicial branch, and and we must require it to stay strong and to hold. So what

Bobby:

what happens

Tom:

We need to support it.

Bobby:

Tom, I'm trying to think, Armageddon here. Right? So, like, let's say that all of these things that they're doing are wrong. They're bad. They're tearing down the the judicial system.

Bobby:

Three and a half years, this is over. What happens then? Does it get reversed? Can it be reversed? Is it once the cake is baked, it's it's finished?

Bobby:

Are you worried that the civilization is gonna just spiral into a civil war? Like, what what's the concern? Right? So it's bad. It's not ideal.

Bobby:

Like yeah. So so what's the end game for you?

Tom:

Well, there there are a number of things, obviously, I think that can come out of it. Right? So who knows what tomorrow brings? Who knows if if he doesn't decide to cancel the tariffs and it becomes no big deal? And it turns out that Canada and Mexico loved, you know, the kind of play and the tit for tat that went on there and said, you're actually our guy.

Tom:

We wanna be allies again. We'll we'll start doing joint military exercises together. That was fun, but we're we're still tight, brother. And Europe comes back and says, hey. No.

Tom:

We're all good. We're still tight. And then whatever peace happens in Ukraine, that could be one result. It does not seem likely to me, that that that's going to be the case. So it seems to me that at a minimum, we're going to have a short term economic pain, potentially have a long term economic pain that

Bobby:

What is short term to you and what is long term to you?

Tom:

Six six months to a year, it may be short term ish.

Bobby:

So that's shorter than the financial crisis the last two financial crisis. Well,

Tom:

I would I would say the last few years have been been painful, under Biden. I mean, inflation over under Biden have is painful.

Myke:

Hey. Sorry. I wanna pause. So this is the problem. Like, I can't even remember what the question was, but, like, when you go, like, well, Armageddon, what's the worst that could happen?

Myke:

And then when you go off and just like this and this and now we're off and weep.

Tom:

Fair enough.

Myke:

But I think this is the point is, like, no one knows what's gonna happen. And that's the point of concern with the amplification is, like, we got through four years of Trump. Right? And then we had, yeah, four years of Biden. But, like That's good way to put it.

Myke:

But but, like, the the, like, the concern for everybody, you know, concerned with Trump in round one was, like, holy hell. Like, okay. Like, we got through that and the world is still wow. It's on fire, actually, literally. But, like, okay.

Myke:

Nothing too insane happened as far as, like, long term effects. Right? And then we get Biden and whatever, and then it's like, surely, you know, four more years of of Trump isn't gonna happen because, like, if he gets in there, all gloves are off. Like, as insane as he was the first go around, like, he's going to just not have any fucks left to give the second go around. And so forgive me for being like, wait a minute.

Myke:

Shouldn't we be concerned about this stuff? All this stuff ramping up, and then the three of us are having a conversation and going, well, what the fuck's gonna be the worst that could happen? And that I think is the main question, and and that's the big thing of wrestling with is where you're going like, I don't know, but something, like, really bad like, it it it could. It's not unprecedented. It has happened before in short order that things actually flipped and got really bad.

Myke:

And so now you've got people like me who Bobby, I love you, but, I mean, the big difference between you and I is, like, I'm sitting here going, should we not be concerned even just a hair? Whereas, you know, like, like, this is this is the regular old cycle. And, like, I would normally totally, like, agree, like, normal old cycle, but it feels different. And I can't shake that feeling that something feels different. And I don't know what it is, but, like, this is why, like, it is per so perplexing to me that everyone is truly sitting here going, everything's normal.

Myke:

Like, what the fuck? No. It's not.

Bobby:

Well, what what so so part of it is is if you went a week without reading the news, what would be different about your life? Nothing.

Myke:

Nothing.

Bobby:

If you went a month if you went six months if you went a year, Mike, and never listened to the news, you would have no idea. Your your world is gonna be the exact same. Yeah. So it's all Here's

Myke:

the thing about No. No.

Bobby:

Hang on. Here's the thing here's the

Myke:

thing with playing with time is I've actually entertained the idea of time quite deeply. Right? And so when we talk about, oh, what's a week look like? What's six months look like? Like, the concept of time is actually something deeply profound that is causing more concern for me right now, because I've been studying a lot of history and studying how civilizations fall and the cycles in which they fall.

Myke:

We are very clearly already through the gates of a major century turning point in in in society, culture, civilization, just just how we are as a a snapshot of a hundred year history of humans. And, like, it's what we've seen in civilizations that are the grossest, that that are causing concern. I'm not saying that's where we're going, but I'm saying a lot of the same signs are there more so than they have been since the last time some of this stuff has happened. And, like, we have the benefit now of analyzing history and being a bit more thoughtful about it, and that's all we're really trying to do. And and so, like, even if one step is to get somebody to go, yeah.

Myke:

It's a little fucking crazy. Like, maybe a little bit more than usual. Head on a swivel, yo. Like, even that's a win. But but to hear people be like, nah.

Myke:

It's it's the same as usual. Fucking just unplug for a week. It's fine. Like, that is where, like, I don't think there's a shared reality and, like, am I truly the crazy one? And or am I just too worked up?

Bobby:

Like I said, I I don't think I'm your guy. Like, my blood pressure, my resting heartbeat doesn't get that high. It's just not it just doesn't. Right? I mean, I'm just not I'm just not the guy.

Tom:

Can I let let me inject a a question real quick there? Do you envision so when when you when you ponder the the shift, do you do you do you perceive a shift? Any shift whatsoever?

Bobby:

Perceive a shift in in sentiment and expectations.

Tom:

In in, yeah, political objectives, goals. I mean, where where this where the center of the, our morality is, our our direction.

Bobby:

Yeah. So so I can only speak for myself, right, in my little bitty world, in my little bitty circle. And that's part of, I think, the pockets of of America probably think this way. People probably perceive this differently. Right?

Bobby:

So I'm I'm pretty rural. I'm in DFW, but it's like it's not highly dense. It's kinda spread out. And so for me, like, my world revolves around my family's ability to do things, my business, which is construction, real estate, growth, general spending. Right?

Bobby:

All of that has moved in such a positive direction over the course of my life that even if it were to slide back twenty, thirty, 40%, I'd still be accepting of that because that's still way better than where I came from and way better than 99.9% of all people that have ever born would have. Now I think from a morality standpoint, again, I said this in the get go. I don't want my kid to be like any politician, just broadly speaking. I think that rhetoric on both sides and I also think, like you said, Tom, where the they're the oppositions to the executive orders. Like, that's real.

Bobby:

That's happening. That's way worse, way faster, way way more volume than somebody that was in office for eight years. Like, that's not good. Right? The stock market was down today.

Bobby:

The stock market is down often. It's it's not I I I didn't look at the standard deviation to see what the standard deviation is or even what that next level is of today. But that happens. We had a financial crisis because people got greedy. Right?

Bobby:

They had multiple mortgages. Stocks are not owned by everybody. Stocks are owned by, like, the top 30% of people. So when the stock market goes down, it doesn't impact every everyone evenly. So that's it's really bad for some people.

Bobby:

For some people, it doesn't matter. I think

Tom:

concerns for a global recession as well. Legitimate concerns.

Bobby:

Sure. Sure. Yeah. And so, like, what does a global recession mean? Right?

Tom:

Mhmm. Like Yeah. Good question.

Bobby:

And I think it's different to everybody. To me and, again, I I'm not I'm not, it's such a western thing to say. Right? Like, what happens in, like, Ireland? I honestly could give two shits about.

Bobby:

I just don't care. Because it's like, they've made hundreds of years worth of choices that put them right where they are today just like we have. So everybody's you know, we're little bitty dots on a map, and tons of things have happened up to today. The one decision that you make today is just there have been thousands that led to that one moment. And so I just again, I'm just it's not that bad.

Bobby:

Okay. I I just I just don't get it that it's that bad. Guess look. We are on a Zoom call at 09:00 using technology, audio, video.

Tom:

Oh, absolutely. We're spoiled fucks.

Bobby:

Yes. This is ridiculous.

Tom:

Of course.

Myke:

You don't have to convince us of that. Like, we

Bobby:

get it.

Tom:

It's good. Been practicing the privilege I have.

Bobby:

Absolutely. I just don't think I don't know. But when but see, I also wasn't somebody that when Biden or Obama was in office, I wasn't like, oh my gosh. The left is doing all of this stuff. Again, I'm just I'm

Tom:

not that political. It it may be different between you and I, and I maybe this is the difference because something you said about not caring about somebody in I can't remember what

Bobby:

it was.

Myke:

Ireland. Ireland. Yeah.

Tom:

A potato eater. Hundreds, thousands of years of decisions have left them where they are. And and I I do think this this seems to me where where it makes some the maybe some of differences. I am deeply empathetic with the human condition and suffering. Really, it's not just humans.

Tom:

I want I want to not think for my own benefit, really, that people aren't suffering and needlessly so, and that we're continuing to move forward in prosperity, which we have done. But but when when you say something like the people in Ireland, for me is is nobody is a person of of an ethnicity or of a group the moment they are born into this world. So somebody who's Irish who who was born into that circumstance through no doing of their own, I have a hard time wishing that they might suffer for a short term or potentially a long term needlessly because I'm happy and fat and healthy and good. There's a disconnect between us in the way we think of that, and I'm not sure I'm not sure, and maybe it's just the

Bobby:

way where you prioritize I think I don't wish anyone I don't wish anyone to be that, but they're gonna be that one way or the other. Like, there are people in every part of the world that are disadvantaged. And no matter who's in power or who's in office, there's still gonna be a group of people that are marginalized and disadvantaged. So I'm not I'm just not I I don't I I think that I think that one person is gonna have an outsized impact. That's true.

Bobby:

He's the most important person in the world. But there were poor people. There were disadvantaged people. There were people that were raped, tortured, murdered, killed under every administration in every area of the world. So it feels very grandiose to be like, well, I don't want anyone to suffer.

Bobby:

Okay. But they're going to. They always have regardless of who's in power.

Tom:

Yes. I guess the question gets to the point of what level of suffering what level of increased suffering is acceptable before you feel like you have to personally engage?

Bobby:

It's a good question. It's a great question. Oh, man. I think you're probably talking, like, world war, Civil War. Yeah.

Bobby:

I mean, I think that that's super valid. Like, if all of a sudden half the states were like, you're red. We're gonna blow like, yeah. Obviously. Like, if, if California or, like, New York is like, we're gonna go kill everybody in Texas.

Bobby:

That's a problem. Like, there's yeah. That level?

Tom:

Yeah.

Bobby:

But just political banter

Tom:

gradients in between, though. Mean, obviously, are gradients in between there

Bobby:

where Sure.

Tom:

Where you have increased, starvation. You have increased disease. You have all all kinds of additional suffering. I mean, there's many gradients in between here and and world war. So if you're saying it's world war, that gives me a lot of insight into why we come with a disconnect.

Tom:

Because for me, it is far shorter than World War before I think it's a an atrocity.

Bobby:

What what what's your what's your line of demarcation there?

Tom:

Yeah. And that is a solid question. And and maybe it is more arbitrary. And for me, I guess, it is what I seem what seems to me to be needless additional suffering, for the expense of men playing power.

Bobby:

Like ego. Yeah. Yeah.

Tom:

Like Yeah. Exactly. For ego.

Bobby:

So, like, what's an what's an example? Okay. Let me let me ask actually if this is an example, I'll try to pull a thread on that. Right? So Go go for it.

Bobby:

Yeah. Let's say that okay. So can we agree that China invested money into the Mexican infrastructure to be able to support Mexican manufacturing with Chinese investment to be able to sell goods into America so that China wouldn't have to pay the prior tariff that they put into the, into The US.

Tom:

If if that's accurate, that's accurate. I don't know.

Bobby:

Yeah. So so let's just say that's the case. And so, so now all of a sudden, the tariff in Mexico, let's say that it goes up, let's say it triples. So the net of that is what? They won't import as many goods into America.

Bobby:

Right? Which is what? The net of that is so they don't have as many people working because they don't need to make as many widgets because there aren't as many buyers of those widgets in America. And America is let's say let's say America is Mexico's biggest importer. Okay?

Bobby:

So k. So they went from a factory of a thousand people to a factory of 500 people. Mhmm. Right? So what happens to those 500 people?

Bobby:

You're worried about what happens to those people that are affected by a tariff that you feel, is ego driven or or is it? Nope. Because that would be like, because that's the No.

Tom:

I'm not I'm not worried about those 500 people.

Bobby:

So I'm gonna pull on the field a bit longer.

Tom:

I I agree. It will be hard it will be hard to quantify.

Bobby:

So those 500 people. Right? Let's say each of those 500 people have a family of five, and they're the sole breadwinner. So now there's 2,500 displaced people. There's nobody that's a breadwinner.

Bobby:

There's three kids in every household and a wife that now they have to rely on whatever subsidies the Mexican government has. Right? Are you worried about those 2,500 people that the families are impacted from the tariffs from the guy dangling the the tariff? Are those the 2,500 people that you're worried about?

Tom:

I'm not. It was so to be clear, yes, that's a that's a tragedy. But I know that that on a global scale would not inspire me to get politically involved.

Bobby:

Sure. Sure.

Tom:

I think that's the question. You see what I'm saying? It's not that I don't care about that. It is not enough to get me to Same here. Politically evolved.

Bobby:

Yeah. Okay. So, like, where what does happen that that you feel? Because when I know when we talked a little bit before, you were like, do you feel this call to action? And I was like, oh, no.

Bobby:

Like, I don't one way or the other. Right? It hasn't let it hasn't risen to a level of action. Right? Like Yeah.

Bobby:

So for you because, and I know from talking to you, like, you seemed very concerned with, like, the state of the of America or where America was headed. So, like, where where does that concern come from? And, like, where does that tripwire live that you're like, okay. I'm quitting my job. I'm going to march, picket, or whatever that thing is.

Bobby:

Because I just

Tom:

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, obviously, what I'm comparing to are are some of the atrocities atrocities of the past as well. So numerically, where where that is is that I I think that the time is now because I think the trajectory shows promise for being one of those types of events in our world history.

Tom:

And it seems to me the dogmatism, that exists today is ripe, for that same type of activity. The the amount of, unapologetic support for for Donald Trump is an indicator to me. As you would say, he is not a moral man that you would want your children to be like. But there are some people that do want their children to be like him. And in fact, we'll say, I think that he's just like Jesus.

Tom:

In fact, I I literally was reading one the other day. People say that? That he's people think he's the second coming. Uh-uh.

Bobby:

Kidding me. They thought that Obama was like that was Satan. Right? They thought Jill Biden was Satan. Like, people say all kinds of stupid stuff.

Tom:

Yeah. But they justify it. They give me I saw passages in the Bible where they compare it and they're they're making the, you know and for me, I can't I can't think of a person who is likely to be less Christian than Donald Trump.

Bobby:

Great.

Tom:

Yeah. So so, I mean, if you hear anything in the Bible about these types of things, he would be the one to worry about. Right? He's the one who who who will be saying that he's the messiah. He's the false prophet, of

Bobby:

course. Right.

Myke:

Literally posting golden statues of himself. Yeah.

Bobby:

I mean, he had a gold toilet right in the cribs in the February. So it's like

Myke:

No. He literally posted a golden statue of himself. Right. I mean yeah. Not but a couple weeks ago.

Tom:

Yeah. So that's my concern is it feels like the country is ripe for, a legal overreach where where it no longer matters. It it seems to me that we're a post truth society.

Bobby:

Who's truth, Tom?

Tom:

Is less important. Yeah. What what is truth? Right. What what is a fact Alternative facts.

Bobby:

What is seems to me that we're What is it? The NPR lady, don't let truth stand in the way?

Tom:

Yeah. It just seems to me that we're ripe for those types of events to occur where real atrocity happens. And, you know, we had the January 6 event happened that already showed you that people are willing to to ignore the law nor ignore tradition, to a violent mechanism in order to subvert the constitution.

Bobby:

That's wild. Right? So Like, who would even have the stones? Like, I know there was a local person that flew up on a PJ and stormed the capital, and then we're so upset that they got put in jail. It's like, who what?

Bobby:

Yeah. See, and and that's that

Tom:

whole But they're free now if they've got an apartment. Correct? I mean

Bobby:

And I don't know if they have because I just haven't followed this lady. She was from Plano.

Tom:

Well, all

Myke:

of them

Tom:

have been if Yeah.

Bobby:

So it's like

Tom:

charged with something federally.

Bobby:

People do things in groups that they would never do on their own. And I don't know that there's the term for it, right, of, like, if I see somebody else do it, I'm okay do it. And I I feel like no matter what side you're on, right, because you could go back to riots, right, couple years ago, riots. We're like

Tom:

BLM

Bobby:

and riots. Would throw a rock, and then everybody would throw a rock. And it's like, well, they can't get me if everybody's doing it, but it everybody was wrong. And so those types of things are scary, very scary. I've never I've never understood the the protest for change.

Bobby:

Like, I get wanting to say what you have to say, want regardless of what side you're on. I just I don't get the destruction of property, stuff like that, breaking the law. I mean, I don't break the law. So I, you know, I wouldn't I don't care who the president is or what I wanted. I just certain things seem just not the right thing to do.

Myke:

Yeah. And I think that's the we don't, like, to your point earlier, like, just don't get riled up. I don't we don't wanna be like the boy who cried wolf. Right? Because to Tom's point, like, it feels like now is the time to get involved.

Bobby:

But what does that mean? Exactly. I mean, that's why

Myke:

we started the podcast. What because I

Tom:

don't know. I don't

Myke:

have an answer. Yeah. For us, it was this. Like, what the hell? What what's a podcast that 20 people listen to gonna do?

Myke:

Nothing. So so

Bobby:

But let me say this. So do you wanna talk about tariffs?

Myke:

No. So, I mean, I find tariffs highly uninteresting. Economics and tariffs. Yeah.

Bobby:

Yeah. So so what what's the other, what's what's the evolution of the conversation if we can agree that he's not a good person, if we agree that the world is in an uncertain place and something bad could happen?

Myke:

We're talking about all sorts. We're talking about all sorts. Yeah. Yeah. It's That would have to be, like, the relevant thing.

Bobby:

You know what's interesting? So my mom is actually Canadian. She married a Canadian. She's down here right now, and they're up there, it's just as divided. Like, some people and and that that, I think, would be an interesting take.

Bobby:

Some people are like, we don't like where Trudeau took us. Right? Because he's been a very left leaning liberal politician for a long time. There are a lot of people out there that don't like that. The way that they've handled immigration has been different.

Bobby:

And so it's it's interesting too. Like, we're having this conversation, like, broadly speaking, we're having this conversation like, we don't like who's in power. We think that this person is is x y z. We're worried about what the outcomes could be. This conversation, I think, is happening I think this conversation happens all the time no matter who's in power.

Bobby:

It's just the magnitude is different now. Right? Because I think I mean, you could say that Doge and x have something to do with it, but it's like that message can be shared and distributed faster, quicker. But historically too, legacy media has been liberal leaning. Like, if you look at the Wall Street Journal, if you look at any news outlet, it's typically negative for conservative presidents compared to liberal presidents.

Bobby:

And so I don't I don't know. I just I just think this is a revolution. Mhmm.

Myke:

Well, hey. Oh, I I go we wanna pause because we talked about media stuff and everything on on previous episode. We can go back there, but but we have covered it because it's an awesome topic. It's it's awesome. I wanna talk about Canada real quick though because again, this is this is the stuff that like I actually don't think too many people are having conversations like this, like calm, rational conversations.

Myke:

So like Canada in the 50 state, what's your take?

Bobby:

I don't know enough. Right? So here's the thing. How did the Louisiana Purchase happen?

Myke:

I have no idea. I have no idea. I

Bobby:

don't either. I would wanna know what led to the Louisiana Purchase. Was that

Myke:

What? Hang on. Hang on. Hang on. It can we just pause first and, like, ask why that is even a valid follow-up question to the idea?

Myke:

Yes. Okay.

Bobby:

So here's here's why I would say that. Alaska. Same thing. Who owned Alaska before America?

Myke:

Yeah. I don't know.

Bobby:

Think it's Russia.

Tom:

I think I think Russia too. Mean, it Okay. Can see it from your house in Alaska. Chat GPT.

Bobby:

I know. I'm on perplexity.

Tom:

Russian empire. Russian empire. Okay. It was a colonial presence since the eighteenth

Bobby:

Okay. So so so France owned Louisiana. I know that. Right? So so

Myke:

But wait. So we're talking about wait. Are we talking about

Bobby:

as the

Myke:

fifty first state. Are we talking about Alaska?

Bobby:

Well, so so everything roll with it. Everything Oh,

Myke:

I'm sorry. Cut. Yep.

Bobby:

So so this is just the way my brain works. Right? Take it for what it's worth. So I'm from Texas. Right?

Bobby:

Texas was a Mexican territory until it wasn't. Are we better off with Texas or without Texas? Now it's an easy thing to say whenever they

Tom:

Is it an easy question?

Bobby:

I think it depends on what you value in an economy. Yeah. I Sure. You're not gonna you're not gonna offend me. Right?

Bobby:

So so so I think Canada is the fifty first state. Greenland is the fifty first state. I think the question is, well, what's what's the trade off? So so is there a point where you can say America doesn't need anything else from anybody? America shouldn't buy land?

Bobby:

What's the first thing they tell you whenever you get older? They say, hey. Go buy a piece of property. It's a way to build wealth. Right?

Bobby:

It's the American dream. Well, so so why isn't acquiring more acreage the American dream if it's legal? If and and for every buyer, there's a seller. You can't buy something that somebody else isn't willing to sell. So I would say I don't necessarily I don't have an opinion.

Bobby:

I don't have I couldn't list why it's a good or a bad idea. But I could say that if it's for sale, it's worth discussing. I I don't see why not. Would be the argument to say it's it's it's a bad idea?

Myke:

I don't know. Is it for sale, I think, is the first question. Like, is it? It is?

Tom:

It appears not to be.

Bobby:

So Canada But

Tom:

then that thing

Bobby:

but then there's that thing of Canada says no, it's not for sale.

Tom:

And Greenland says,

Bobby:

thank you.

Myke:

Got it. Got it. So so, like, truly, like, running the country like a business, like, truly is, like, cool.

Bobby:

Like No. Yeah. I think the question is is so if you were to go to green Greenland and you'd say, hey. Are you for sale?

Myke:

And they say

Bobby:

no. Well, then that's it. I mean, you you you can't buy something where there's no seller. Cool.

Myke:

That no. No. That cool. I'm down. I'm down.

Myke:

So We agree?

Bobby:

Is there is there a narrative that they're just gonna, like, eminent domain

Myke:

Well, he keeps a part of the world? Yeah. Well, I mean, he keeps it wait. What was the question? Sorry.

Tom:

Go ahead.

Bobby:

Is the question that America is trying to eminent domain a part of the world?

Myke:

I don't know. I was just wondering what your

Bobby:

thoughts on the

Myke:

whole thing were? I thought Well, a little thing's insane.

Tom:

A little bit. Yes. Because, mean, that's that's the comment on Greenland. It'll happen one way or another is is, I think, the statement there. Oh, way too loud.

Bobby:

Yeah. I mean, I think, obviously, eminent domain, that's that's a different thing. But but if somebody's like, yeah, Greenland's for sale, it's a trillion dollars. Does America have a trillion dollars? How do they finance the debt?

Bobby:

I don't think there's anything wrong with acquiring more property.

Tom:

Yeah. I agree. The the the question really I what do people's mind.

Myke:

I think there's nothing wrong with acquiring property. I think there is something really weird about muscling down property though. That's really fucking weird.

Bobby:

But but whenever you buy a Yeah. When you buy a house, you don't give them the list price. You don't give them 20% over list price. You're like, hey.

Myke:

No. But like Can't say

Bobby:

it's like No. But but 80%. I know you want

Myke:

a 100% you're active

Tom:

to it.

Myke:

I agree. No. I agree. But if somebody came to my house and was like, I'd really like to buy this house. And I'm like, nah.

Myke:

I mean, I'm not interested. He's like, you know what? We're gonna buy it anyways. And I'm like he'd be like, well, fuck you are. Yeah.

Myke:

Exactly. You know, so like that's Yeah.

Bobby:

Yes.

Myke:

Yeah. So that's why, like, I don't I love that. That's what I don't get. So then to take the conversation to the point of, like, should we not acquire things? Like, how are we gonna acquire things?

Myke:

I'm totally cool with that.

Tom:

Well, see here's here's a a little here's a little bit of it, though. Right? So he's clearly offended, some allies of ours by by playing this game, and I think that weakens us. But but here's what I think is an interesting nuance, and I I don't I think that many Republicans probably pick up on this. The first thing he did was rename the Gulf Of Mexico to the Gulf Of America, which I'm I'm sure that's again just to get a ride

Myke:

I flew over it the day after I

Tom:

think that he's legitimately trying to kinda put his stamp on his make a legacy. And I think that's where some of the stuff about Greenland and Canada comes from. He'll be the president who got Canada. He'll be the president who got Greenland. He's the president who renamed it Gulf Of America.

Bobby:

You're absolutely right. Telling ego.

Tom:

I think what he's telling, though, is that he didn't say he would make Mexico part of America because he doesn't want those dirty brown people to be part of this country. What And I think that's truth.

Bobby:

What what's so interesting is, you know, if he's if he grew up in commercial construction the way he said he did, right, those people built the buildings. They build everything in Texas and Florida and any anywhere South Of the Mason Dixon line, those are the people working. Right? And so that is interesting. But I think too, being an elitist, I can't relate to.

Bobby:

Right? Like, I can't relate to growing up in in Bridgehampton and and traveling to Europe for the summers. Like, I don't know what that does to a person. I don't think it's probably healthy. I think the net of that is you see the world in a very, very pinhole narrow way, most people, and that's probably reinforced your whole life because you're just surrounded by people just like you.

Bobby:

Yeah. That's tough. And our

Tom:

our our red flags are so that's the deal is our red flags are when we look at those people and we say, you are a deeply immoral person. I will not vote for you because I can't trust you.

Bobby:

I can't Yeah.

Tom:

So I don't understand your worldview.

Bobby:

Yeah. For me, so, like, I think I think abortion is immoral. So, like, I'm Mhmm. That's kinda my thing is, like, okay. You know, you, abortions are predominantly for for minority women.

Bobby:

So, like, if you're if you're pro minority, but you're pro abortion, you're kinda, like, spitting in the wind. And so Yeah. I don't I think morality is is is a fair reason to not vote for somebody. I I would have no issue with anyone taking that stance. I just I think morality comes in lots of rappers.

Tom:

Sure. I I think I think at the end of the day, you know, we're we're affording somebody, obviously, tremendous power. And and we hope that they are people of principle because

Bobby:

They're not Nobody's nobody with that much power is people of principle.

Tom:

We hope there is some semblance of principle because, obviously, there's a lot of damage you can do when you don't care about people.

Bobby:

I think people say what they have to do to get elected, but then as soon as they have the opportunity to influence in a positive way their sphere, that's exactly what they do. I I don't know of a gosh. And I wish I was, like, a poll political historian or, a presidential historian, but, like, is it common to pardon your whole family before you leave office? Is it is it common to set up all of like, is it is it moral to go sign

Tom:

Yeah.

Bobby:

I don't know. It I just think there's a lot of that. Right? I I don't think that morality wins. I just don't think that's why people vote for people.

Bobby:

I don't think that anybody at that level is probably of good moral character. I mean, are the Obama's Would you call Bernie Sanders? He what is it?

Myke:

Bernie Sanders. Would you call Bernie Sanders a moral person? From from what you see, I mean, just just from what you've seen him, would you say he's yeah.

Bobby:

So here's

Myke:

That's what I can because I I agree with you, man. I think so many of these politicians, they I mean, nasty. I mean, like, the the stuff they do that sell things down the river, sell their morals down, like, left and right. Right? Like, that's DC.

Myke:

That's business. That's money. That's power. That's influence. Like, it's it's rampant.

Bobby:

Broadly speaking, Bernie Sanders. Right? What does he stand for? He stands for, like

Myke:

Generally, you know, health care for all.

Bobby:

Health, health care for all. Nobody should have more than I have, everybody should get their equal cut.

Tom:

That's not

Myke:

burning. Could So that's why I'm asking you

Tom:

Yeah. No.

Myke:

That's that that is an interesting, I mean, if that's if you're truly asking, no. That that would not be Bernie.

Bobby:

I am absolutely asking because, again, I'm not I'm not a politics guy. Everything that I've ever seen from Bernie was, like, universal health care, tax the

Myke:

That's rich true.

Bobby:

No oligarchs.

Myke:

That's true. That's true.

Bobby:

So so here's what I would say. I think that all that

Tom:

stuff He can also say that he's a he's a capitalist. I mean, he's a socialist, he supports capitalism

Bobby:

Yes. As Of course I

Myke:

hate that he uses that term, by the way. He calls himself a democratic socialist. Stupidest term to be using ever because people are dumb and they're gonna fucking hear socialist and just dismiss him. Immediately but

Tom:

we don't we're not afraid of red anymore, though. So that's a little bit confusing, really. Right?

Bobby:

Yeah. I mean, I I

Myke:

guess Well, right. So

Bobby:

what do I think about him? I don't I don't think about him. I don't think No.

Myke:

I just wanted to think if

Bobby:

you thought he was meant to ever rise. Moral or immoral. That's it. Moral and moral.

Myke:

That's it because yep. Gosh. Good question. So

Bobby:

so I'm trying to give a a parallel analogy here. Gosh. This is gonna go this could go way the wrong way.

Tom:

Okay.

Bobby:

I need to find another one. Okay. Let's do this. Let's say this. Let's say that I said everybody needs to be healthy, that you have to be healthy.

Bobby:

Being healthy is the most important thing. But then I was four hundred pounds and overweight, I would be a hypocrite, but I wouldn't necessarily be immoral. So I would argue that more than anything, Sanders is probably I don't I can't judge morality because I don't know anything about him. But I would say that he probably spins a web and tells a story, but his life is nothing like the people that he's talking to. And so I don't think that's immoral, but I do think that there's a I mean, I don't

Myke:

Yeah.

Bobby:

I don't know. I wouldn't I wouldn't spout it to you. I wouldn't I wouldn't rail against something that I am.

Myke:

I I realize that morality exists on a spectrum, but for the sake of simplicity, can we bucket oh.

Bobby:

You're good. I'm just getting my laptop.

Myke:

Alright. I was gonna say, can we can we bucket the aforementioned, amorality of typical, politicians, with that of Bernie Sanders? I think that morality spectrum is is there's quite a bit of separation between those those two. I don't know if we lost him.

Bobby:

Can turn turn that light off?

Tom:

Nope. Sorry.

Bobby:

Hold on, guys. Hold on. Alright. Hold on. Can you hear me?

Bobby:

Yeah. You can still hear me.

Myke:

Can hear you.

Tom:

Yep. Can't see anything. Must be on Verizon.

Bobby:

Yes. Okay. Let's see here. So I guess another question in regards to immorality is is insider trading immoral?

Myke:

No. I don't think that is immoral. No. I don't think so. Well, wait.

Myke:

Sorry. Insider trading? I mean, it depends on what you mean by that. I I don't know. But but to the extent that there's money in politics and such, I no.

Myke:

I I I I would not easily bucket that in the amoral category. No. Because that shit's so rampant. Like, it's it's just that's how it is. That's how it goes.

Myke:

If you're gonna call that immoral, then everybody in there is is is immoral. But, like

Bobby:

Is that

Myke:

say I that the only point what's that?

Tom:

I would say it's immoral. Yeah.

Bobby:

Yeah. I would think that that would be

Myke:

Well, the problem is is the problem is is where do you put where do you so insider trading, I guess. What do we call that? Just somebody had information before and and they made their trade on it, with information that wasn't public? Like, that's generally what we're saying.

Bobby:

The whole Nancy Pelosi thing. Right? If you know a big government fund is coming out to support semiconductors and you know who's gonna build the semiconductor plants in America and who's gonna get that money, and then you buy those shares ahead of

Tom:

time. Mhmm. Yep.

Myke:

Yeah. I I I just don't see that as in in my definition of how I hold up morality, that just doesn't pass the test of my, like, concern if we go back to, you know Yeah. Sure. Yeah. It's it's yeah.

Myke:

It's an immoral action, but not to the extent that I'm trying to talk about, I think.

Tom:

Fair enough. Yeah.

Myke:

Yeah. Because, like, that's just not the thing I'm gonna bitch about. Right? Like, I'm not gonna bitch about any Republican that's doing that, and I'm not gonna bitch about any Democrat that's doing that because, like, it's a waste of fucking time because it happens so often. You know?

Myke:

It might like, I mean, I don't know. Do you guys disagree? And, Bobby, your video is still messed up.

Bobby:

Yeah. Other screen deal, I've gotta get some permissions.

Tom:

Oh, yeah.

Bobby:

Here we go. Almost there. We got something. Almost there.

Myke:

We got you somewhat.

Bobby:

Yeah, baby. Sorry, guys.

Tom:

That's okay.

Myke:

You're ruining this pro level production we have going

Bobby:

on here.

Tom:

Listen. This is good content though. I mean, is a real

Myke:

this is great. I love this. It's exactly what we wanted.

Bobby:

What what else has happened recently? So, like, on my Twitter, I'm small business Twitter. I'm definitely not politics Twitter. I try to avoid that, where possible. So what is what is the so we got tariffs, stocks.

Myke:

God. Yeah. I mean What isn't going on? When you we covered quite the gamut, and that was the last fucking week. What more can we sheesh.

Tom:

Getting getting past two days anymore is a feat.

Bobby:

It really

Myke:

is. What's the next day to drop? To to earlier That's Oh, god.

Tom:

Like

Myke:

What happened today? So today today was the stocks and the tariffs. Right? That was, like, the topic today.

Tom:

Right? The future. The market reaction to the tariffs were were today. Right.

Myke:

Which which to Bobby's point, like, I don't I don't get excited about this stuff either because this shit will this shit will adjust. It just will. And so it's not worth getting excited about because in fucking like, yeah. It might be really bad, you know, a month down the road, but then a year and a half down the road, it'll be just fine. And then we'll forgot all about it.

Myke:

Like, it doesn't excite me, these things. But the concern of it, you know, to Tom's point earlier, like, well, it's all there for really bad things to happen. Yes. Agreed.

Bobby:

There we go.

Tom:

Shift Bobby. I can see Bobby. I can see Bobby now.

Bobby:

Hold on, Tom.

Tom:

The circle of Bobby.

Myke:

He's in his doctor evil chest.

Tom:

Center that thing up. Lord. There we go.

Bobby:

What are we doing? What are we doing? I need something cooler than that, guys. Hold on. I'm just I'm in that living room, and so it's like it's it's not it's not very fancy.

Bobby:

But anyway

Tom:

We were talking about moral and then what what we kick into? I have so what was your last question on on moral, Mike? I think you were the last one with something on the on the

Myke:

Well, we're just kinda talking about, like Bernie Sanders came up, and I just always like to throw him out as because I agree. I mean, there's so many politicians that are just deeply flawed, you know, in in pretty profound moral ways, you know, and, like and and and even outside of that, because this is something I kinda build up to morality is, like, just a lack of a spine and lack of any moral compass, you know, that that stays put, and everyone's just for sale. Right? And that to me is just pretty immoral too to to not have a belief system that you stick to, you know. And so that's why, like, Bernie Sanders to me is always a prime example of, like, he's not that.

Myke:

Like, you can think whatever you want about the guy, but he seems to be dead on in every estimation I can fucking throw at it, like, you know, not perfect situations or whatever, but he he means what he says, there is reason behind it, and he doesn't waver from it. And, like, that is very rare. You find that rarely in a politician. So that's why I was I was curious if you thought he was lumped in with the same, you know, Dreck, immoral, you know, politicians.

Bobby:

Yeah. I mean, I think his messaging has been the same, and that's a brain

Myke:

Well, yeah. Because your your immediate thing was, like, he wants everyone to be broke and, like, yeah. So that would be a pretty immoral thing if,

Bobby:

the I mean, I I think his message He's

Tom:

been selling the same campaign for decades. Yeah. So he's I mean, to I think that's Bobby's point.

Bobby:

Yeah. He's at least consistent.

Myke:

Better or worse. Yeah. Yes. Yeah.

Bobby:

Yes. Whether he abides by it or believes it or supports it or yeah. Yeah.

Tom:

Yep. Yep. I I believe that he believes it. Yes.

Myke:

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Definitely so. Which, I mean, again, is more than can be said about most politicians.

Tom:

It's true.

Myke:

The stick to itiveness Mhmm. And the unwavering belief in it. That's pretty rare. That's a those are two rare traits. I agree.

Myke:

Sorry.

Bobby:

100% Yeah.

Myke:

Where you at now? Cabin?

Bobby:

Well, you were thinking Bernie Sanders. I'm going Vermont. Going Vermont.

Myke:

Yeah. There we go.

Tom:

You get your mist.

Myke:

Syrup. You didn't find the separate door. You didn't find the separate handles for the sink. Cute. Freaking it.

Myke:

Yeah. What else is going on?

Tom:

Let me ask a weird question because, you know, I like some of the more philosophical stuff, and and maybe this will be boring for somebody. But I you you mentioned morality, and that's that's something I I do like to talk about of some. But, you know, morality being on a spectrum. And I I guess I'm kinda curious because you and I, Mike, talked, and I'm I'm a little bit more rigid on what morality is. But I'm kinda curious, Bobby, what what is your firm foundation for?

Tom:

What I mean, even defining morality is sometimes very difficult. Right? Where where where what's your foundation there?

Bobby:

So kinda my role is, like, what I do I guess my filter would be, would I want my kids to do the thing I'm about to do? So that would be that would be my that'd be my thing.

Tom:

I I like that actually really.

Bobby:

Trying to think of an example.

Tom:

There's a there's a lot to imagine with it.

Bobby:

Yeah. So I'm trying to think of the last like, I'm just trying to think of a thing that's happened recently where that would be a good filter. This I can't even think of something that, like, I've I've run up against recently where, like

Tom:

Let me throw a real quick one at you real quick because, I mean, it it it's an interesting it's an interesting thought. So let me throw out maybe the one of the simple ones just to see where it goes. And this may be silly. Sorry. Somebody has ice cream, and you're walking along with your kids, and you want it, and you take it, and you like the ice cream.

Tom:

But you're saying you wouldn't do that because you I'm assuming you're saying you wouldn't do that because you wouldn't want your kids to do it. And the question would be, why? Why do you not want your kids to take someone else's ice cream?

Bobby:

So I I guess I would say there are just, like, probably 99% of things I would never do because they're just not the right thing to do. To me, stealing somebody's stuff, I would not do it because I wouldn't want my kid to do it. I wouldn't do it because it's not the right thing to do. I'm trying to think of more, like, higher level. Like, you have a really hard decision, you know, that.

Bobby:

Like, the there are just certain things you don't do because they're wrong. Like, I don't I I don't have a filter for those. Part of it was I was raised by a single mom. And so, you know, she was tough. She had to do stuff.

Bobby:

She had to our life was just not easy. And so I could never imagine taking something from somebody that worked hard for it because, gosh, like, if somebody would have taken something from us, like, we couldn't have replaced it. So long winded, but No.

Tom:

You're right. I mean, personal autonomy and personal property are foundational, right, to to what we feel like we are do. Right? If if there's anything that we deserve, it is ourselves and our bodies and that which we can make and and create for ourselves. Right?

Bobby:

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Again, I think morality, I think it's it's tough because not everybody shares the same standard of right and wrong. Right?

Bobby:

So, like, somebody could say, well, what if what if this person left their ice cream to go to the bathroom and you just saw it sitting there and it wasn't in someone's hand? Would you take it then? Because you're not taking it from somebody because it's

Tom:

question.

Bobby:

It's no one's. But it had to be

Tom:

that you're not taking it from somebody. Right?

Bobby:

Right. So maybe there are people that are like it's like you find $20 on the ground. Like, do you turn it into the cashier or do just put it in your pocket? Yeah. Yeah.

Bobby:

Yeah. So I Mhmm. I don't know how you argue that stuff. And I don't I don't know what the I don't know what the leading authority on morality would say.

Tom:

Yeah.

Bobby:

I love your questions, Tom. Philosopher over there. I feel so simple, because I just I just see what's in front of me, right, instead of you know, I would never ask someone a question like that because I wouldn't, unfortunately, my brain doesn't work that way. So I love that exposure to that. You know?

Tom:

Well, it's, I have to admit. I mean, it's been a little bit of a journey for me over the last couple of years because, I'm fully an atheist now, but, you know, I I didn't know where I was for years. I've I've always probably been an atheist, but I kinda wanted to believe in stuff like that. But anyway, I dug into it and I realized that morality was real a real sticking point for me. So I put a lot of effort in understanding, what we have to place, where we have to place value, And and it was really uncomfortable for a while.

Bobby:

That's so interesting. How, like than

Tom:

I meant for it to be.

Bobby:

Do do you have, siblings, Tom?

Tom:

I do. I have an older brother and then three, younger, half siblings.

Bobby:

Are y'all's views fairly similar or do they waiver?

Tom:

I don't know. So no. We're we're not tight. We we don't communicate a lot. So I don't I don't really know.

Tom:

I I well, I do know. My sister, she's pretty liberal, but I well, I I wouldn't don't know that I would even say that. She's pretty socially interested, but I think she's got some conservative leanings. My other younger brother, I think, is pretty darn liberal. And I think I have one that may be a little bit more right leaning in the night.

Tom:

My older brother, I'm not quite sure where he is at all.

Bobby:

Would you so I

Tom:

But but we just don't communicate a lot.

Bobby:

And I don't know that this was a real thing or if this was overblown, but, like, there were stories, around the web of of people that post election, like, stopped talking to certain parts of the family because they voted for x, so they didn't vote for y. Are you in that camp where somebody close to you, you couldn't be a a family member or a friend to if they voted for one person or the other?

Tom:

No. No. But I certainly could lose my faith in trusting somebody's judgment. Yeah.

Bobby:

So

Tom:

And would not would not consider them somebody who I would rely on.

Bobby:

Right. So it's interesting you said that you would lose faith in someone. What how do you define faith? Because you said you were an atheist, and I think most people, when they just hear the word faith, they're gonna

Tom:

Faith is faith is entirely the wrong word in that context. Sure. Sure. If if you hang up on faith in that context, then trust is the most proper word. I would I would lose my confidence that they are somebody who I could rely on for, important things.

Bobby:

Sure. Sure. Man, that's so interesting. I kinda see that, though. I I think so so having kids, young kids.

Bobby:

Right? You know, we don't let our kids stay anywhere. They don't go stay the night at someone's house because no matter who it is, like, my mother-in-law, my mom, our neighbors. Right? Like, I would never it's like a risk reward and regret thing.

Bobby:

Like, I trust them. Sure. But, like, I'm not leaving my kids with them. Like, doesn't matter that I don't trust them. So it's like even there are just certain things that you have faith in people, but you wouldn't trust them with doing a certain thing, and it's it's it's not always their fault.

Bobby:

Sometimes they make a decision. They they take a stand, that's the thing. And then other times, you're just like, nope. I'll I'll shoulder that one my whole life. Like, and that one will be on me.

Tom:

I think that's a real testament then to how much you care for the well-being of your children, though. Right? I mean, isn't isn't that kind of the source that of it is that you very much wanna make sure that they're getting their moral guidance from from a source that you trust.

Bobby:

Yeah. And I think as much as anything too, I think kids are so impressionable. Mhmm. I think I think and I think you can make your kid into anything. Anything.

Bobby:

I think you could turn your kid into an apple. If you told them their entire life, they could be polished and eaten and had a seed inside of them. I think that you could convince a child to be anything. And so, yeah, I think for for our household, it's very there's it's just very black and white. There's no there's no gray in that, because children are just too impressionable.

Tom:

Yeah. I think that's very commendable. Need need more parents like you out there.

Bobby:

It's hard, man. It's hard. Parenting's tough. Parenting in this time, it's tough too, especially if you have teenagers. Right?

Bobby:

So, like, can you imagine your kid coming home being like, Timmy Timmy said that Elon Musk is it's oh, man. I'm just so glad our kids are Yeah.

Tom:

They're even more connected than we are, though. Right? So once they get old enough that they get on the socials, they can't get away from each other. Our It's

Bobby:

Our kids will never terrible. Never. We will never buy them a phone. We will never connect them to social media. Not ever.

Bobby:

Because I'm paying for it. I'll take the door off the hinges. You'll be wearing listen. My wife, I don't remember the circumstance, but she could only wear sweatpants for, like, two weeks because she did something. And her mom was like, okay.

Bobby:

That's fine. This is all you have to wear for two weeks, sweatpants. So she's in high school, I think, or, like, late middle school wearing sweatpants to school because her mom was like, I can you need to understand. I am the boss. So, again, you know, you gotta do what you gotta do.

Tom:

Oh, man.

Myke:

So good.

Bobby:

What about Tom, do your are your are your kids similarly aligned from a perspective on what's happening in the world? And if so or not, how much weight do you feel that as a dad Yeah. Who's probably loved? You seem like a lovable guy, opinion, whatever it is, you just seem like you're a solid person. What's what's that like with your kiddos?

Bobby:

Because I think your kids are older. Right? Like, young adults?

Tom:

Yeah. My my son is 20 I'll probably get this wrong. 27, I think. And my daughter's, in her early twenties too. So, yeah, they're both grown and they both have opinions, politically.

Tom:

My son is is, I think, probably much more engaged than my daughter, but my daughter is much more vocal now, than she has been over the last couple of years. She she seems more engaged anyway. They're both left leaning. I mean, we obviously have had a left leaning household, but I I was not very thoughtful about how I presented politics and political talk. But honestly, we it wasn't very political in our home until the last few years.

Tom:

So I don't think that a whole lot of political stuff influenced them when they were younger. It really isn't until, Trump, really, is when we became more vocal in the household.

Bobby:

The Simpsons had it right. How did they get it right?

Myke:

I am not too familiar with their I know they're always right, but I don't

Bobby:

have any of the connections. I wanna say they had a skit, I don't know when, that Trump was the president, like, a decade ago

Myke:

Oh, yeah. That's right.

Bobby:

Or something? I I Really? I could be off here. Right?

Myke:

Well, infinitely more accurate would would have to be then, idiocracy. Ugh. Yeah. That's yeah. Scarily.

Bobby:

What so do you so so here's a question. Do you still think that America is the best place in the world to live? And if you were in another country, who was where you'd want to go?

Myke:

I have no clue. I've only ever been in The United States, so it I would be a horrible person to ask because I don't have a very good vantage point. But I would think it's probably one of the I mean, from what we know, yeah, that's gonna be the best. But but, I mean, I think our mindset really sucks compared to the little bit that, you know, I've I've been exposed to some eastern mindsets. Right?

Myke:

Like, I don't think that we have it right. I don't think anybody has it right. I think there's a good mixture of everything that should be experienced. So I don't think it's as cut and dry to be like America's the best place to live. It's not that simple, but no.

Myke:

I'm not complaining about it. I love it here. As for all its horrible faults and everything that we're experiencing right now, I wouldn't change where I live. No.

Bobby:

Yeah. Yeah. Same. Same.

Tom:

Yep. I'm proud of our warts. I love our constitution. I think our constitution is a real progressive, focus for for law in the world. And I and I hope we preserve it, and I hope we refine it.

Tom:

And and I hope we start projecting, I think I hope we start projecting that value in the world.

Bobby:

What what has to happen for someone to amend the constitution in a way that's so let's say the third term presidency. Is that how that would have to happen?

Tom:

Yeah. I think it would be a two thirds. Yep. It'd have to be a two thirds vote.

Bobby:

K. K.

Tom:

Not not likely to happen in in the legislative.

Myke:

Because there are

Bobby:

still Republicans that dissent even recently. Right? What were there? Four Republicans that dissented from a recent, before they took a break? Tariffs.

Bobby:

Okay. Okay.

Tom:

So I McConnell, and a couple of them, yeah, voted against, Trump's tariffs.

Bobby:

So is everybody is the consensus that there will be a target on Again, I don't know that the schedules to any of this, but is there is there talk rumblings that he's gonna look to kinda take them down a notch and have them replaced or have somebody run against them or uncover some dirt? Like, is is that kinda like the next canary in the coal mine that, like, if all of a sudden those people that opposed him now don't in the future, he did something?

Tom:

Oh, no. So I'm sorry. Maybe I have a different narrative. That's that's recent.

Bobby:

Okay.

Tom:

Senate the senate recently, I mean, days, passed a bill, to to control his ability to to, you know, do these unilateral tariffs.

Bobby:

Okay.

Tom:

And and it will go to the house. So if there are rumblings about replacing them, that would be today's news k. If if you know what I mean. Yeah. So I'm sorry.

Tom:

I may have picked up on a different topic.

Myke:

Sure. Sure. And does does having just those few, sour the vote, or do do they not still have a large enough majority even with those dissenting? Does that ruin it for for

Tom:

Yeah. So what what is so this is a senate bill. So this was passed in the senate, and the house has not voted on it yet. So I don't know who, allowed it to come up. I don't can't remember who the senate majority leader is right now, was able to bring this thing to a voter.

Tom:

Somehow they they brought it to a vote. They've passed it, so it will it will have to go to the house, and then Mike Johnson will decide whether or not to take it up or not. It could stop right now and and never go anywhere from there. Sometimes it's just symbolic notes.

Bobby:

I I always wonder, like, if you see the thing happening, what's the thing that's actually happening? So it's interesting, like, okay. So tariff talk. Tariff talk. Tariff talk.

Bobby:

It's like, where

Myke:

What the hell is actually going on? What what's the greater move?

Bobby:

Yeah. Like, what because usually, if you're deceptive and you're a terrible person, you don't preach, look at me. I'm a terrible person. I'm being deceptive. It's like, what's the thing, and and how do we know it, and when does it come out, and who exposes it?

Bobby:

Or or is this literally just ego saying, I can have you kiss the ring?

Myke:

Right? Yes. That's the thing I can't stop asking either. And which is another reason why I hate to, like, jump into criticizing it either because I mean, Trump's not an idiot, man. Like, this could very well end up being the best thing that ever happened.

Myke:

Right? Like, we don't know. And, like, the reality is crazy enough that, like, that could be how it ends. Right? We truly don't know.

Myke:

Like, it's hard to conceive of it, but right? So I get I get that's where I understand. You know, people are going like, we have to wait and see. I I get it. Like but it just it's crazy.

Myke:

Right? At the same time, that's all I wish for acknowledgement. Like, remember. Right? Like, let's just all be ready for when it actually does go bad.

Myke:

Let's quickly fucking acknowledge this shit's insane. Get it the fuck out of here right now. Reverse this. Right? Like, we have to be ready to collectively go, we were all really wrong about this.

Myke:

Let's let's know.

Bobby:

Let's How does that happen?

Myke:

Go back the other way or whatever. I don't know. Can can Because we've never seen this. That's why I'm just, I don't know. I know.

Myke:

These conversations are at least doing one tiny little thing about it. Right? So then if shit does go crazy, we keep, like, remember that time we talked? Let's just that guy's fucking insane. Right?

Myke:

Like, I'm not asking anybody to admit that right now, but just to acknowledge the situation zoomed out just a little bit. Right? So we can always come back to something should things go bad.

Bobby:

Mhmm. Yeah.

Myke:

That's it. That's all. I I bet I don't yeah. And I mean, this yeah. This whole thing is not about like, let's bring people on here and blast them.

Myke:

It truly is like, hey, the left I know, you know, you think we're all fucking crazy, you know, loony left. What? No. It's not the case. Yes.

Myke:

They're out there. And the acknowledgment same on the other side. You're not all crazy right wing lunatics. Let's all remember that a majority of us meet in the middle. That's all this is is just having those conversations.

Myke:

That's it.

Bobby:

Right. Right. Yeah. I think it's I think it's interesting just to to think about the stock market because, again, it it doesn't impact everybody the same. In fact, most people, it doesn't at all.

Bobby:

Right? And so it's just interesting that

Tom:

Mhmm.

Bobby:

There's so many strings you could pull on there.

Myke:

Exactly. Yep. And so much of so much of this requires time to pass. And that's why, like I was trying to hound so hard earlier on like the idea of the amplification of things right now, because I think at least in our estimation, it's this amplification is causing this to be even harder to try and be comfortable with letting things have a little time to pass because there's so much every day, and that's not normal. Remember sleepy Biden?

Myke:

Sleepy time. Right? It was all very slow. It was it was all very slow shit. Right?

Myke:

And now, like, you know, now it's a thousand miles an hour versus 10 miles an hour. So, like

Bobby:

I remember

Myke:

because of that, it's just simply worth, let's just acknowledge. Alright?

Tom:

That's it.

Bobby:

I remember Scott Galloway saying that. He's like, I don't want to see my president on TV every 30 minutes. Like, I don't want to see that. And it's like, is that what makes a good president? Like and and I guess that's a question too.

Bobby:

How do you judge past presidents? Like, what, just broadly speaking, like, what what's a good president do versus a bad president?

Myke:

That's a good question.

Tom:

From for me, I think, generally, the mark is going to be, how they navigated, bad times, hard times.

Bobby:

So so Joe Biden's hard time would be COVID, the inflation? Yeah. And we

Tom:

have post COVID inflation, the economy rebuilding. Yep.

Bobby:

And then Trump would be just his first term was you could just say, you say it however you want to. But his first term and then COVID, that was kind of his challenge.

Tom:

Yeah. I think COVID was the obvious test.

Bobby:

Right. And then Obama was well, we had the financial recession.

Tom:

Post financial recession. Right. Uh-huh. That's his entry into the market.

Bobby:

Right. Right. And then Bush, obviously, 09/11. Got eight years of Bush.

Tom:

Mhmm.

Bobby:

And before Bush, was Clinton, '92 to February. Clinton. Yep. His was the economy.

Tom:

He was mhmm.

Bobby:

Was it Bush senior before that?

Tom:

Yep. For one term.

Bobby:

Yeah.

Tom:

Yeah. Reagan for two terms.

Bobby:

And Reagan savings alone, oil and gas.

Tom:

Yeah. See, I That's also that's also when the anti some of the anti social justice stuff picked up too. Right? That's when the welfare queen language really had the big uptick.

Bobby:

Now what so what is that?

Tom:

Well, I mean, that's when Rush Limbaugh really started to get

Myke:

into politics. That's that's when they all started really started changing. Okay. Yep.

Bobby:

So that's the talking head, like, jumping off point was the eighties?

Tom:

Yeah. I think so. I mean, some of this, the moral majority got kicked off in the sixties. I think maybe late maybe early seventies, it was really the jury fall on moral majority. And that's what kinda spearheaded some of the stuff with Reagan.

Tom:

Reagan really kinda rolled rolled that tight in. It's it's really this this Christian nationalist movement. It's kind of the word where it got its foundation. But there were changes in laws, and I can't remember what they were that allowed, for more political speak, on the airways or something like that. And that's when Rush Limbaugh really started to take off, and those real talking heads started to take off.

Tom:

And and that's when, there was a real backlash with those talking points were trickled down and welfare queens. Okay. Started in the eighties. And that's been the message ever since.

Bobby:

And now the medium is it went from radio to TV. Now it's podcasting and short form videos. It's it's so interesting because

Tom:

Yep. I've tweets.

Bobby:

Yeah. And I I forget who it was, but they talked about how the revolution in the media and the new medium, whoever wins it first typically gets the first crack at the election. So they were talking about Trump with the podcasting. Barack Obama was It's interesting. Micro donations.

Bobby:

Bill Clinton in the nineties, he was on TV. George Bush was on TV, because he ran against there was something there was this Bush ad where he talked about just being consistent. And John Kerry, they were like they showed him flip flopping, flip flopping, where Bush, it was like the same thing over and over. And, like, just that message. Right?

Bobby:

That one message won over as many as he needed, and and it's interesting. And I guess part of it too is, like, in hindsight, do you remember do you have scars from any of those presidents, Tom, that you still feel today? Or, like, you can, like, just close your eyes and be like, they ruined me for a period or, like, I I went through this thing. Like, do you have any scars from, you know, five, six, seven presidents that you still feel today?

Tom:

No. And and, admittedly, know, I think it's a it's a symptom of being so young. So, I mean, I'm only 50 now. And and I was pretty naive and not politically interested for for most of my adult years, really. Right?

Tom:

I mean, I had a job. I was working. Economy was good enough, and I wasn't too terribly interested in in some of the social justice things that were happening at the time.

Bobby:

Sounds like you're talking about me, Tom. Mhmm.

Tom:

Yep. But it wasn't till maybe Bush two that I started getting concerned, and that was really, 09:11 obviously woke a lot of us up in our response to it.

Bobby:

Where were you were were you still active? MIPMortgage. Were you still active when that happened? No. Okay.

Tom:

No. I I just I just missed. Yep. So, yeah, Reagan I was a Reagan kid when I grew up, but he was the president when I was a kid. I didn't care much about Bush, the first Bush.

Tom:

Clinton, he was the president when I was in high school. I was probably turning a little bit more liberal then. So some of my formative years there is probably why I started leaning left. Then, you know, Bush as the follow-up there. He I don't know.

Tom:

He it was his mannerisms that I didn't particularly like. Laughed everything off. It seemed he seemed like he wasn't serious, if you know what I mean.

Bobby:

Yeah. He didn't want that job.

Tom:

Weapons of mass destruction stuff or whatever. Yeah.

Myke:

A little limp handshake too.

Tom:

Yeah. Yeah. Obama was pretty smooth. It was pretty inspiring when he got elected. I thought that it was a it was at least a statement from our country that maybe some of the racist roots, were were being tamed.

Tom:

And and I think that, actually, what we've achieved is that we've we realized that that really pushed too many people over the edge. I think racism is at the core of, some of this backlash. It's it's that Christian nationalist kind of root, with racism at the core. Because I think that when Obama got elected, certainly the second time, they realized that the world was broken.

Myke:

So what's

Bobby:

and I can only speak about my experience. Right? But the church I go to, I've gone there for fifteen years, and it's full of different people from different places. I'm talking it's probably half I don't wanna say minority, but I'd just say let's say half is minority, the other half is the other half. And it's like, it's so interesting to hear someone say because I've never heard that Christian nationalism and racism being joined together.

Bobby:

And so it's interesting, and I guess maybe that's just because of the church that I go to or the the way that I view the world. It's like, that seems so counter to Christian behavior to to hate somebody idea. Because of race or where they're born or how they speak. And so it's like, that stinks. And I don't doubt it.

Bobby:

I don't know enough to doubt it or support it, but that that that really, that's that's part of the problem. I'll back it

Tom:

up just a little bit. Yeah. I'll I'll I'll back it up just a little bit because that's where Jerry Falwell's moral majority came from. So, originally, that that whole protest that created that movement was desegregation in the in the sixties. So that's where Jerry Falwell was arguing against is he didn't want segregation.

Tom:

And that, again, that's the movement that has spearheaded most of this growth. Okay. Project twenty twenty five and the Heritage Foundation have all have all spurred out of this. It's kind of been their plan all along. So it's it's really that movement and that type of Christianity that is, I think, the source of most of this Christian nationalism.

Tom:

And there's a there the undertone certainly always has been, of race.

Bobby:

How do you, broad broad question here. How do you view race versus immigration? Do you see those two things as being, two sides of the same or opposite sides of the same coin, or do you feel that those are different different different issues altogether? And I'm gonna grab my computer charger because my computer's about to die. I'm listening, though.

Tom:

Mike, do you have some thoughts on on that? Because I have to admit, I I don't know that my thoughts on race versus immigration are very deep.

Myke:

I guess I don't know what that means. So race and wait. It's race and what?

Tom:

A a differentiation between race and immigrant, right, and immigration.

Bobby:

So here. I'm sorry. It. Hey. Let me help.

Tom:

It's gonna come to a question about national identity.

Bobby:

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So so that's kinda where

Myke:

I'm ready to some clarity.

Bobby:

That's kinda where I was going, Tom, is, you kinda got there before me. So I'll ask a few qualifying questions.

Tom:

About nationalism and national identity is what you it will have to boil

Bobby:

down to. So the the qualifying question or let me just ask this. Do you think that MAGA supporters are racist white people mostly?

Tom:

No. I wouldn't think that they would think they are. Yes. No.

Bobby:

So you don't think that they're racist white people?

Myke:

Most not most. No.

Bobby:

Okay. Do you think, do you think that Trump is a racist?

Tom:

Like, I think he likely has, some I think we're all racist, to tell you the truth.

Bobby:

I think we profile. Right? Like, based on the history that we have with people and what we know and what we've experienced.

Tom:

I I think we are tuned to look for differences and always treat somebody who appears different as an outsider in some way, shape, or form.

Bobby:

Sure. And so where I'm going is is kinda like and maybe I misread this, but I read Christian nationalists that propped up a political movement which led to the extreme right conservative party.

Tom:

Yes.

Bobby:

So my my question there is, like, do we think that the the hot button issues in the current administration that immigration is one of the one of the top.

Tom:

Yeah. Definitely. Yeah.

Bobby:

Right. And so is that based on being racist, or is that based on being American?

Tom:

Yeah. Is it racist or just nationalist?

Bobby:

Right.

Tom:

Yeah.

Bobby:

And does it matter?

Myke:

I think it's and so what's the question again? Like, like

Bobby:

So so let's say that Trump got Immigration

Myke:

is happening because there's, like

Bobby:

Yeah. And so and so kinda broadly, the question is, like, if if you hate Trump, right, which means kind of Hate him. Yeah. So so you could kinda deduct the reasoning, say that you hate the people that support him. Shit.

Myke:

Nope. No. No. No. No.

Myke:

No. Not at all.

Bobby:

Okay. Interesting.

Myke:

He's probably the only person in the world that I hate. Prob probably.

Bobby:

Yeah. So again, I guess the question is just like if if his big policy gosh. This has been too long. I don't even know where I was going with the question.

Myke:

We were talking about race and immigration, if that helps.

Bobby:

Yeah. So Trump got elected because of his stance on him.

Tom:

Differentiation between you know?

Bobby:

Yeah. So I'm trying to tie these threads together of, like, Trump was elected because his rhetoric on immigration, so many people supported. Christian nationalists kind of have created this movement up into the right. My assumption, Tom, based on what you were saying was that the we thought the the collective thought is that that base is white racist people. But if that's if that's not true, then that wouldn't really matter.

Bobby:

But but the question is, like, he got elected because of a lot of people didn't like his stance or or supported his his rhetoric on a lot of topics. So, like

Tom:

Mhmm. America first.

Bobby:

Yeah. So So I

Tom:

I mean, make America great and America first is

Bobby:

Yeah. I guess the question is,

Tom:

like simple based propaganda.

Bobby:

What's the what's the alternative?

Myke:

Well, I mean, for the presidential election, there was no great alternative as we know. Right. Right? Like But I'm saying, like, if you could We're not here arguing, like

Bobby:

what would you want your your president or your politician to stand for?

Myke:

Yeah. Oh, that that's I don't know. Like, we'll go back to one of the things I said earlier about, like, not that I wanted to be Bernie, but the one thing that that I, like, strongly pointed out was, like, have have convictions that don't change with the wind, and have a spine, and be a good human. Like, those would be, like, the three huge things

Bobby:

Trump have two of those three?

Myke:

He has a spine, certainly. Kind of. I mean, like, I I'll grant him that. I I disagree. I think he could be snapped like a fucking twig.

Myke:

But I'll grant him he's got a spine. Whatever. Like, whatever. I get it. People thinks he has big balls and like people love Trump's manliness.

Myke:

Right? He got shot in the air. He's got

Tom:

a picture of him, blood on

Bobby:

his face. Mean He's

Myke:

you seen that painting with him? Seen. Yeah. Like the one we used on

Bobby:

the Put it on a

Myke:

t shirt. The tank and he's like, and he's like, fucking. And people are like, oh, Trump Do y'all remember that Putin? Okay. Yes.

Myke:

He's

Bobby:

Remember that Putin meme where he was riding a horse?

Tom:

On horse? On a horse with a Oh, yeah. Bear chest in

Myke:

it. Yeah. Yep. So, okay. I'll give him that.

Myke:

He's got a jelly spine. Okay. What were the other two? Convictions that don't change with the wind? Nope.

Myke:

That's out. No. Yep. And what was the other one? Morally not not morally.

Myke:

Just a good human. No. I think he's a garbage human. I think he's, like, the worst human on the face of the earth. So, no, he had point five.

Myke:

He had a jelly spine. And point five of the three, that's what he got.

Bobby:

So what do we think the world looks like if Kamala was elected right now? A little better. A little better. Better.

Myke:

A little better.

Bobby:

What's better?

Myke:

Not this. Not fifty first state with Canada, Greenland. All this shit we've talking about for the past three hours, like none of that.

Bobby:

We talked about that's okay. So you mean And

Myke:

and but but hang on. Hang on. But we'll call back the amplitude that is not okay. Right? That's the big theme here is like all of this combined.

Myke:

Contributes to participation. Amplitude, the insanity. Of course. Yeah.

Bobby:

Right? So, like, people have to decide that that's how they're gonna spend their time.

Myke:

Yes. And that's part of the problem.

Bobby:

And so we're thinking That's huge part.

Myke:

That is a huge part of the problem.

Bobby:

So the consensus is that the Trump supporters are louder, more vocal than the left?

Myke:

Yes. Which was what was trying to say at the top of the episode. Like, things are different. Things are things are yeah. January 7?

Myke:

I don't know. Lair 6. Sorry. January 6? I mean, yeah.

Myke:

I do think that that the right is louder than the left in their actions. Yeah. I do.

Bobby:

Okay. Yeah.

Tom:

But but, admittedly, I mean, along those same lines, they're convinced of something, that inspires them

Myke:

Oh, they are.

Tom:

To to the

Myke:

right man.

Tom:

Yeah. Yep. Yeah.

Bobby:

And so And that's what

Myke:

we're talking about.

Tom:

If if I had believed the election were stolen too in the way that had been described, I could've I could've been there.

Bobby:

So, gosh, I'll I'll I'll go down this road. Is it true that Kamala won the states where the voter ID laws are the lackest? They In only those states.

Myke:

Well, weren't that many states that she won. So we probably look it up pretty quick. And I think they were pretty democratic states which I think by very nature of their title are probably pretty lax. Right?

Tom:

That there may be Right. Different

Bobby:

Yeah. So what do we think about voter ID law?

Tom:

Because well, so the question is this. Let's just ask the actual the actual question you're asking though is is whether or not she got fraudulent votes. Is that the question you're asking?

Bobby:

So if you follow the yes. Broadly speaking, the do you

Myke:

She should have lost worse? Goddamn it.

Bobby:

Yeah. So, I mean, I think the question is, and, Tom, you know this. Probably, y'all probably both know this better than I am. Let me make sure I say this right.

Tom:

I doubt it. I'm pretty dumb.

Bobby:

There was okay. Let's take the Social Security cards and the benefits. Let's just broadly speaking, people that come into this country, should they get those things?

Tom:

Yes. If if they're here and they're working, and they're here, yes, they should have them and pay taxes.

Bobby:

Mike, your consensus there?

Myke:

Yeah. I don't have a huge dog in this fight. I'm interested to hear. I just I don't have a lot of knowledge of of immigration stuff. The one thing that that I will say that that, like, annoys me with the debate of it is it seems like there's so many people that really don't have much experience about it either.

Myke:

Now you as a Texas citizen, this is what I really wanna hear from because I truly don't have that in my life.

Bobby:

So let me

Myke:

I'm I'm gonna sit back and listen.

Bobby:

I'll give you my secondhand experience. So my wife is a public school teacher. She taught kindergarten, second grade, and fifth grade. At the time that she was the teacher, less than 30% of the students could read at grade level. Less than 30%.

Bobby:

Her school, the last school she was at, they told her that, she would need to learn Spanish to continue her employment, which I don't know what rule that breaks, but I imagine it breaks one or two. And so there's a this is a side journey. But so so my only experience with immigration is that and I don't even know that these I don't presume that they're illegal aliens. They could be very fine, upstanding Americans that just don't speak English. That could that could happen.

Tom:

Birthright birthright citizens.

Bobby:

Absolutely. That could happen. And so that's not the conversation is more of the strain that that student puts in a classroom in a public school. Public schools aren't equipped to deal with that because what happens is in her school, the kids that did well, they all chartered out. So they would find a school, pick a school where all of the other good kids went, and they'd go there.

Bobby:

And that would leave the rest of the public schools with the kids that shouldn't have been passed along and shouldn't be in the grade that they're in. But schools lose funding if a percentage of their class gets held back. So principals, even though they're supposed to hold people back, they don't because it looks poorly on their numbers and their funding. So they have self interest to move them forward. So that's my deal.

Bobby:

I I don't really have a dog in the hunt for immigration. Wanna throw one thing. My question was about if you allow illegal immigrants to vote. Now that is a

Tom:

They can't vote. I mean

Bobby:

Okay.

Tom:

I I don't agree with that at all, and I don't think anybody does.

Bobby:

So so that was the conversation with is his name? Tom, I'm a send you something because I watched it, and it was just I don't know what it was.

Tom:

It's recent. It's the recent Doge piece, where they saw the two two point one million immigrants who got Social Security numbers. And and because Biden want has this plan, I think it was some of their terminology, and I think they hinted that some of them voted.

Bobby:

It was the lawsuit that Chuck Schumer and them filed against I'm gonna write myself a note with Tom because, again so, guys, you have to I apologize. I don't know all the details, but the issue is, like, if you can get people

Tom:

This is all fun stuff either way.

Bobby:

And and isn't that kind of the the deal is, like, if if I can hold something over you, I can get you to move in my direction. And so if I can get people you know, is it is it true that the border crossings are down 90%? So if you could do that as a president, why wouldn't you? Unless there's something ulterior. So to me, it's always like, where does where does the common sense rule here or where does the money rule?

Bobby:

And it's like

Myke:

No.

Tom:

Sorry. Please. My deal is I don't I don't entertain the common sense language at all. I think I think leaning on the term common sense is is at the point where you give up and you say, I'm gonna give in to what I wanna believe. If somebody can illustrate to me something tangible, I'm okay with that.

Tom:

But I think most of it's just narrative. So narrative on both sides

Bobby:

That's fair.

Tom:

Is what I think largely that is. Unless you've got some kind of specific statement or or or something like that, I'm going to have to assume that I can't know what the alter ulterior motives were. Yeah. I I just don't know. And I and I just don't wanna play that game because, you are not gonna run into anything where you've got something foundational, I think.

Bobby:

I think you're right.

Tom:

But maybe you do have something foundational, but I'm not gonna have anything to refute you either.

Bobby:

So here's here's one. Yeah. I'll go out on a limb here. So in Dallas, there is a group of land that was bought by let I'm gonna use a different example. Let's say that the Smurfs have billions of dollars.

Bobby:

K? And the Smurfs can buy a piece of property in North Texas that's for 500 acres. K? And they can slowly move the Smurfs the they can slowly immigrate Smurfs in and around that 500 acres. So much so that eventually, they get seats on the school board.

Bobby:

They get seats at the city council. They get seats in the HOAs to where now all of a sudden, the Smurfs surround this 500 acre piece of land. And now the Smurfs wanna build a Smurf village in the land that they now circle, and they now can decide what happens in that village. That to me is the is the crux of immigration. It and gosh.

Bobby:

This is, you know, this may or may this is probably completely unrelated. But it's like, I think that is the thing that people worry about is that the the place that they thought was one way slowly, slowly, slowly is eroded to become another way, and they're just not equipped to change. Some you know, not everybody can change. Not everybody wants to change. But I think, like, most people don't like wholesale change, which is why most people live within 20 miles of their parents.

Bobby:

Right? So, again, my my deal with immigration was that if if if you lord something over them, could you buy their votes? Could you pander to them? Could you simply say, you know, come here. We'll get you set up.

Bobby:

And then when the time comes, you know, we know that you're gonna stay here, so your kids are gonna go to school here. We're gonna get on the boards here. And then all of a sudden, you you you have also too. Right? You just talked about birthright citizenship.

Bobby:

So if if I am a great 500 smurfs here

Tom:

Well, hold on. Because I'm I'm willing to engage in the conversation that you started, so I don't know if you're gonna pivot from it or not. Okay. So to be clear, so the Smurfs are, not native. Correct?

Tom:

And and they moved in, and they've, taken over in an area or whatever. I think I I think I have sympathy for this view of yours to a degree because I think it does get to your national identity question about, you know, who are we, as a collective because I I think what we want to be is to be bound by our values. Right? It's it's

Bobby:

But those transcend nationality.

Tom:

A few foundation. They do. They do transcend nationality, but but there are lots of traditions and cultural things too that we that we value, that we think make us who we are. Right? I mean, it's all about tribalism at the end

Bobby:

of you want your kids to inhabit is how kind of I look at it.

Tom:

Yeah. It's I I grew up in this, and I think this is good. And I want my kids to have that too because I grew up in that, and I thought it was good. And my dad did too, and his dad did too. But I want that for my kids.

Tom:

And then to see that people can come in, who are not part of the group, and they can change the values of the group. I get that that's concerning. And I think that's a legitimate question about, I think nationally, I think we have a constitution that sets what the values are, that that we hold. And if you don't agree with those values or they're not important to you, that's a tough question still too, because we should be able to challenge our constitution. But but there is something fundamental.

Tom:

There's something foundational there that I do want people who choose to come into this country, to value.

Bobby:

Right. I'm with you.

Tom:

I I think that's a little bit of the crux. It's

Bobby:

black and white's tough. There's always some gray.

Tom:

Mhmm. I'm gonna throw this

Myke:

out there as far as tough and and like, black and white. When it comes to stuff like immigration, race, integration societies, cultures integrating, being forced to speak a different language at the school for fear of losing your job. Right? All these things, all these these concerns that come up when the Smurfs come in. Yeah.

Myke:

It it's challenging, but I the place I always go to because unlike YouTube, I don't have kids. And so, like, my worldview has always been a bit different and kind of once removed, you know, from worrying about, like, we're gonna leave for the kids and, you know, stuff like that. And, like, I totally sympathize with all of those concerns of the Smurfs moving in. But when you start to zoom out just just a little bit and and start to, you know, just analyze, these are humans. Right?

Myke:

These are

Tom:

Mhmm.

Myke:

These are humans. And, like, look what we're doing. We're saying because the language your tribe speaks is coming in and and and messing up mine, I'm like, what? What the hell? How how do we how do we reconcile the because, like, first of all, can we pause there first and, like, does that resonate?

Myke:

I mean, like, do you feel that on a human level once you kind of remove, like, your securities and your family's securities? Is it easier to kind of, like, see, yeah. This is pretty straightforward. Like, yeah, we have these societal things, but as as a general rule, these are humans. Right?

Myke:

Does it resonate, or is it just me, first of all? I mean, like, Tom.

Tom:

Oh, I don't wanna jump in and come on Bobby if he's got something, but, yes, it does resonate with me.

Bobby:

Bobby? Yeah. I I think you want trust and safety for for you and your the people that you care about and just probably general general wear welfare at large because you need that to function. Right? Like, if everybody's afraid and they're locked in their doors, then they're not spending money.

Bobby:

They're not investing. They're not

Myke:

Right.

Bobby:

And no business survives.

Myke:

No. But but just like just Bobby Bobby Vickers personally, though, you, like, when you analyze the idea of, like, immigrants fleeing for safety illegally, like, they need that safety you're speaking of and that comfort and those basic needs, the food that you like. They're just as in need, probably more so. When you remove when you yourself and your family's needs, just zoom out just just for the idea of entertaining it, right, as an idea. Like, do you I mean, do you share the same feeling I have of just, a profound awareness of, yeah, they need to be taken care of.

Myke:

Like, yes, my family does too and I need to, but like as a human, this is actually not good. Do you, Bobby, like have that same just pause and reflect, zoom out and just reflect?

Bobby:

Have have you all ever been to

Myke:

Do you share that?

Bobby:

Haiti or Africa?

Myke:

No. But I've seen pictures. Same thing. I mean, I would talk about that. I would put this in the same category.

Myke:

Do you, as a human, see that as like, that's a big problem. Like, regardless of what my situation is, like, it is not good that I'm existing like this and they are existing like that. So Like, that's not good.

Bobby:

But yeah. No. I so yes. And I've been fortunate enough to go to Africa, and the pictures don't do it justice the way that people are live, what what they're born into, the the things that they have to deal with. So, yes, I think if people are in that situation, then absolutely.

Bobby:

Now

Myke:

And I'm not even talking about, like, you're laying in the dirt with flies crawling on your face. Like, I'm not talking about, like,

Bobby:

that has to be point that

Myke:

it reaches to where you have this feeling. Sure. Like, I'm talking about just I'm fleeing strong gang violence and and coming to, like, I I the whole spectrum is what I'm talking about of, like, the human experience and needing safety. And so for me, like, that's where things like immigration, race, it always just comes back to that simple point of zooming out quick and just, like, having that just detachment momentary detachment just to remember, like, yeah. I know that I've gotta take care of my family and this, but, like, that doesn't change the fact that there's a huge injustice with this situation.

Myke:

Not to say that there's an easy answer to it, but that's where it starts. Like, the humanity starts there and then works outward from that. Because it's all problematic, Tom said, totally feel feel for that situation. But it's so big and so vast and there's so many problems that I just I tend to always come back to the most essential elements of things, you know, of going like, this is wrong. And, like, no matter what else is the case in the world, like, it doesn't change the fact that this is wrong.

Myke:

And then guide from there, really, just a reflection and admission of that and then guide from there. I think it's something we forget to do. So so that's all. It's just a simple thing that I think we forget so often, and we are so just consumed by media and advertising and shit and life and paying stuff and just making life happen. I just

Bobby:

wanna go live on a farm and I know. No. But

Myke:

like when it comes to political stuff, it's just like, oh, what's the answer my team likes to say? And well, that's how we end up with where we're at. Like, people come on wake up, just think a little bit more, talk a little bit more.

Bobby:

Honestly get into it because they think they can change? Like, where how do you

Myke:

I think some do. Some. I think.

Bobby:

Yeah.

Myke:

Some. I'd say maybe, like, 20% of them.

Tom:

Know it's just others see as prestige and power. And I think a lot of them who may have gotten into it, for principal reasons end up staying in it for the power.

Myke:

Yeah. Or or just, like yeah. Yeah. They're just so weak that they're just,

Tom:

like right. Yep. Can do this. Yeah.

Bobby:

It's just interesting because, like, you're just signing up to get kicked in the shins for the rest of your life. Like, danged if you do, danged if you don't. It doesn't really matter. Like, it's gonna the the the pendulum's gonna swing. Right?

Bobby:

And you're just okay with it because of your position. You're good either way.

Myke:

Mhmm. And, dude, you're so right. And I think this stuff can change. It's all we've ever known, so I know it's, like, silly to hear and be like, but, like, I think it can change. It's the money in politics, the technology, the advertising, all of this stuff, like if that can get pushed out, if if enough people can, I know it seems impossible?

Myke:

I get it. I get it. But if enough people can get pissed about it, if we can get those nasty parts out, I think we can flush out a lot of the it'll take a long time, but, you know, I think it could get flushed out and get to at least a decent sense of of normalcy. And it's gonna have to happen because all these old fucks are all, you know, they're all flushing out. So, like, the new the new generation is coming regardless and, like, this stuff starts now.

Myke:

Right? And so I don't we just wanna be a part of

Tom:

it.

Myke:

Is it? Like, we're tired of these assholes running the show. Fuck them. It's time for something different.

Bobby:

But but different in the way that you want it to be different. Not different and different. Nope. Because Trump is different.

Myke:

Nope. Different. Okay. We'll we'll put it this way. Different.

Myke:

Nope. Dip no. I'm gonna stop you because it's the name of the show is middle outcast. Different in the way that 90% of everyone else wants it, right up the middle. That's where everybody wants it.

Bobby:

Yeah. But so I think the, let me ask this question, and and I don't know if y'all know this. In the is it is it Great Britain or The UK, one of those two, you can only run political ads for a certain period. You both get the same amount of money, and you both get the same amount of airtime. So money doesn't really matter because you both have the same budget, the same, exposure.

Bobby:

Right? Sub sans social media. But it's like, you almost need to find a way to

Myke:

make willing to say that money is not the issue just because something in Britain didn't

Bobby:

work or whatever. What I was

Myke:

saying is, like If you actually say that, like, money's not the problem, then you're wrong.

Bobby:

No. No. No. What I was saying is that

Myke:

at least one of the

Bobby:

Yeah. No. What I was saying was like, is the solution to where everybody has the same war chest? Right? Like, you each get a hundred hours.

Myke:

I don't know.

Bobby:

You each get $10,000,000. That's what you get. Because what you're talking

Myke:

That's getting on the right path Yeah. Certainly.

Bobby:

No. I Yeah. I it's kinda like, it's kinda like banning pharma commercials on TV. Right? It's like okay.

Bobby:

I mean, but that's a net positive and, like, okay. Let's give everybody the same budget. Let's see how they use it because then it would be intelligence. But in this case, didn't the Democrats outspend Trump, like, four to one?

Myke:

Outspending is not the issue here. It's the fact

Bobby:

that that

Myke:

that gross amount of money is involved at all. Yeah. Money is the it's not that just because you raised more. It's the fact that there's a gross amount involved. Relative to what?

Myke:

Sanity.

Bobby:

That that's not a barometer.

Myke:

No. No. Don't fuck around with this.

Bobby:

It's it's not the barometer.

Myke:

Social media. You know what it's engineered to do. You know what social media is engineered to do. You know what stocks are engineered to do. You know what influence is engine this stuff is rife with all of this.

Myke:

And, like, I'm not saying I have the answers. Sure. But to fucking go, it's probably not, is highly

Bobby:

Oh, no. I'm I'm saying that disingenuous at money I'm saying that money money is the issue, but spending more money than somebody else four three to four times that, shouldn't they have won if they if all of this stuff is true?

Myke:

Do you think that's an honest question?

Bobby:

So we both agree that money and politics is bad. Right? Yes. K. Yes.

Bobby:

So the follow-up question is, should the person that had way more money and spent and wasted way more money, should they like, you wanted them to win? Because that would have been the outcome.

Myke:

Did I say that once? Did I did I know. Like, I'm serious. Did I gesture towards that or say that?

Bobby:

So you would you prefer Kamala Harrison as the president?

Myke:

What I would prefer is that they didn't have a gross amount of money to work with for their campaigns.

Bobby:

We agree. Perfect. Yeah. So my so that that was my question. That's it.

Bobby:

Well, and and that's what I was saying about The UK. It's like, they cap it where everybody has the same amount of money and the same amount of exposure. But

Myke:

Okay. How much money did they have?

Bobby:

Well, it's but but but what I'm saying is the money isn't what won Trump the election. So the money would not have changed this election. Do you think the money do you think if they do you see what I'm saying? If money is the issue, money causes that amount.

Myke:

Saying, and that's why I think it's flawed. What you're saying, correct me if I'm wrong, what you are saying is my assertion is is that money is a big problem. And then Kamala Kamala spent four times as much, ergo she should have won.

Bobby:

No. No. Ergo money is not the biggest problem.

Myke:

Well, I didn't say the biggest. I said a big problem.

Bobby:

Sure. We agree. Yeah. It is a big problem. But but money money didn't money didn't buy the election.

Myke:

I never said it did.

Bobby:

Right. And and I'm not saying that you said that you did either, though. I'm just making a statement that,

Myke:

like Then why are we masturbating around this? Like, the it's simple. Money in politics is bad. You went, but is it? I mean, in Britain, money in politics is bad.

Myke:

Do we disagree?

Bobby:

You're you're you're missing the whole point. You can't run an election without money. What I'm saying is both people should have the same amount of money. Money.

Myke:

Okay.

Bobby:

Yeah.

Myke:

That's And and, like, what what just, like, as a reasonable person who knows, like I mean, obviously, we we've never run a presidential campaign. We can't possibly know how like, it's I mean, on, like but if you just had to, like Sure. Take a rough assessment of the world the way it is, running marketing campaigns, like, what do you think would be a fair budget for a presidential candidate? I like, I could take a stab. So Like, then I have a number that came right off the top of my head.

Bobby:

Was it, like, 50 to a 100,000,000?

Myke:

It was exactly 50,000,000. That was my yep.

Bobby:

Pick a reasonable number. Right? Somebody would have to do a test run and see if that was enough to influence enough people to get out to vote. Right? Because at some point, it's just a Sure.

Bobby:

Awareness and repetition and consideration. And so I'd Yep. But but

Myke:

Good enough starting point for me.

Bobby:

Right. Right. And my my general consensus here, Mike, was that or my general thought is that money is bad, but money wouldn't have changed this particular election.

Myke:

Sure. I'll

Bobby:

get that. I think the same outcome if you take money out of it. So what's the next thing that has to

Myke:

be Woah. Woah. Pause. Pause. Pause.

Myke:

Can you restate what you just said? I'm going to get the same outcome. In what? In like, are you talking about the last election or moving forward?

Bobby:

Yeah. No. Just the last election. I can't predict the you know, we can't predict That

Myke:

that's fine. Yeah. That's fine. So I I'll I'll I'll seed this last election. I that's not even my critique is that money in politics caused Kamala Harris to lose.

Myke:

That is, like, furthest from my assertion of of the situation.

Bobby:

So we're talking about how to elections better or more fair? Or

Myke:

I'm talking about how to make politics more, reasonable. And and yeah. Like, there's a massive problem with money inside of politics. There just is. And I would think that a good deal of what has happened over the past sixty to eighty years as a country is largely due to that aspect, Citizens United.

Tom:

This may be a weird question. I'm sorry. And I don't I don't hope I don't throw off because this is really good stuff. But it raises a question for me, and and this it's this one. I think money and politics, are are are one in the same thing.

Tom:

You have to have money, in order to get advertising out there and to influence people. And in my mind, that is part of people stating what they want. Right? So I give money to the candidate that that is selling the message that I want. I think here's the difference, that that maybe I think is interesting.

Tom:

Elon Musk has nearly a trillion dollars. So if if we all look at money, as the the goal to give to somebody, I think of money as a vote then. So does does Elon deserve, because he amassed so much money, the ability to have that much influence on the election. However much he's willing to spend.

Bobby:

People would like to say he gets one vote. Right? The naivety of that? Right. Yeah.

Bobby:

No. It's not fair.

Tom:

But but does he get does he get a trillion votes?

Bobby:

I know. That's a good question. That's tough. That's tough.

Tom:

Yeah. I I I think there has to be a balance there. I I think there has to be a balance because Absolutely. I think it's directly, related to the economic imbalance that we have. And and that's unfortunately what happens.

Tom:

Alright? You have an economic imbalance, and those who are the beneficiaries of it are able to then continue to influence the system to become beneficiaries of

Bobby:

100%.

Tom:

Alright. I think I think that's the issue. So it's not just one thing. It's that well, it's that we don't have a level playing field there.

Bobby:

Gosh. And you love the people that like It's

Myke:

messed up.

Bobby:

Life's not fair. You know, put your boots on, go to work. Life's not fair. But there comes a point, right, where that

Myke:

Pull yourself up by your bootstraps.

Bobby:

There comes a point where the magnitude is just so

Tom:

Exactly right. When the when the top 1% has more wealth than the bottom 90, there's a problem. Right? They we we have allowed somebody to become too powerful. And I think that's what's happening with Tesla.

Tom:

Right? So people aren't mad at Doge. What they've done is they've realized that somebody who is compromised. I mean, I think Elon prides himself in his edge lord attitude in his ability to flout his his money. Right?

Tom:

Fuck fuck Bob Iger. Right? Fuck them. Fuck. I'll do what I want.

Tom:

I'm Elon Musk. Hile. Whatever. And I think what people realized was that Bottom of my heart. He has achieved too much power for for what he's representing and the influence that he's trying to have on the world, and we need to take that power back.

Tom:

And I think that's what the message is is that that Tesla is a tool that is giving him power. And and the only way to get it back because he clearly is misusing the the vast power that he's got, from their perspective is they're clawing it back in the way that they can. I mean, I said after the election, immediately after the election, said to my family, I said, I'm surprised that every Tesla in the world is not on fire right now.

Myke:

You did say that. Elon

Tom:

because Elon Musk bought this election.

Bobby:

Did. Was that an issue was it an issue of it it wasn't an issue before he bought the election. Right? Can we agree to that? Like, everybody was fine with him being the world's richest person?

Bobby:

Or were there issues did you have issues with it before? Like, did you think this this great inequality should be rectified?

Tom:

No. I think yes. I do think that the the great inequality is the same. I think it I think that that problem has actually expanded in many ways. I I don't think that people should be able to gain that much power and influence over others.

Bobby:

Yeah. It's a weird it's a weird relationship.

Myke:

You you don't think that well, Thompson, you're saying you don't think that, like, any one person should have that much wealth or Yes. I have the ability to do thing. Mhmm. They are. Okay.

Bobby:

Okay. Mhmm.

Tom:

Yeah. For for me

Myke:

Well, hang on, though. Hang on.

Tom:

Because it's also about influence. Right?

Myke:

But but would you change your answer if and I know this this is such a vague phrase, but, like, would you change your answer if, you know, money was out of politics? Right? Like, because because then does money lose its strength when it's out of, you know, public

Tom:

policy? Really good point. I mean, you're right because that is a limit on its influence, and I think that's legitimate, and that's a

Myke:

legitimate It's not the amount of money. It's That's

Bobby:

what he's doing with it. Exactly.

Myke:

Yeah. It's what So you're not railing against him for being rich. It that's not the thing. Mhmm. Right.

Myke:

It's it's just, unfortunately, what he's able to do with all of

Bobby:

And would

Myke:

it would and I know is.

Bobby:

If he was doing what you wanted a president to do? No. So, like, if he could if he could speed up your causes by thirty years, you wouldn't be for it?

Tom:

I I don't think I don't think I should be able to do it solely from one person's will.

Bobby:

Yeah. It's a lot. What what what is gosh.

Tom:

I I don't think anybody should be able to force their will on so many others.

Bobby:

I would love to have, like,

Tom:

wealth they have.

Bobby:

Like, a, old Roman historian on here. Right? Somebody that, like, understood, like like, wealth and power and birthright and just, because you think about, like, the the the monarchy. Right? They have a ton of wealth.

Bobby:

They have a ton of influence, but, like, nobody hates them. Like, it it broadly speaking, like, the everybody loves queen Elizabeth. Right? But she was the same thing. She had both.

Bobby:

Right? She had birthright. She had wealth. She had power. But it was like she never really rocked the boat.

Bobby:

Like and I think Kara Swisher said this yesterday or the day before. We don't like to see him doing all this. We don't like to see that he's the person doing all this. We'd rather just see the puppet instead of the puppet master. And that's it was interesting because she's as liberal as they come, and she's simply saying, I don't wanna see it all.

Bobby:

So it's not necessarily that it's happening. It's that it's so virile and and apparent, which I think is interesting. Just broadly speaking, her opinion versus mine, it's, like, probably wrong either way. I don't know that it's more wrong because you see it. Right?

Bobby:

That's I don't know. It's like, it's okay to cheat on your spouse as long as she doesn't find out. You're like, what? Woah. Woah.

Bobby:

Woah. No. No.

Myke:

Right. Yeah. I feel like I feel like I yeah. That's a that's an interesting thing. I feel like I would rather see it.

Myke:

And and, like, here's the thing is, you know, make regular practice of trying to check myself. You know? Like, am I just crazy here? I mean, that that's been a regular practice for

Tom:

for Right? Nearly a

Myke:

And, like, I don't know. I don't know if that's I don't know if that's a regular activity that that goes on, you know, with with too many other people when it comes to, you know, politics Let and

Bobby:

me say this.

Myke:

And I can't stop answering, no, I'm not crazy. Goddamn it.

Bobby:

But, ah,

Myke:

now I sound like a drug addict. I'm not crazy.

Bobby:

Tom, you know this from having kids. A lot of the millennials are in their having kid phase where it's like two car payments, house, kids.

Tom:

Yeah. And you

Bobby:

get so busy and so

Tom:

I've seen it. Oh, no. We lost you, Bobby.

Myke:

Still there? Aw.

Bobby:

Oh, no.

Tom:

Oh, I bet maybe you did. He's been a trooper.

Myke:

This has been awesome.

Tom:

It's been good stuff. That is computer.

Myke:

Oh. Oh. Oh. So it shifted.

Tom:

You saw something shift?

Myke:

The layout shifted, but it was just our videos. See if I can text him.

Tom:

Craig O'Dear, said that he would be happy to come on anytime.

Myke:

Alright. See? We're hitting the format now. Yeah. Look at this.

Myke:

This is a long episode too. Holy buckets.

Tom:

I know. Craig's, Craig's really educated. I think that he would be able to bring a lot way more insight to a conversation like this.

Myke:

Would Some historians on here too. Is he good in the history?

Tom:

I think so. Yeah. He doesn't leverage a whole lot of historical context, but he'll he typically will will put things in contact in context. Yeah.

Myke:

His AirPods died. He's coming back in.

Tom:

Oh, my look at my ring turns black. That's funny.

Myke:

What color is it?

Bobby:

Green.

Tom:

Because of the green screen. And it is Well, I don't know. I would think that the the rest would shine through it, though. Also, maybe it's not. It may just be the light.

Myke:

There he is. Damn it. What were we talking? You dropped. We were right in the middle.

Myke:

You

Tom:

had said goddamn. Oh, I had remembered what you said because I was gonna use it to, like, remind you.

Bobby:

They didn't like being able to see Elon do everything.

Tom:

We got a little further than

Bobby:

the scenes.

Tom:

I don't recall exactly where it was.

Bobby:

The Queen. Elizabeth. Queen. Mhmm.

Myke:

I ain't seen no queen at her damn Dundee's either. Just how and

Bobby:

I don't know how the audio quality is now, so I apologize. But how people like it was pageantry. Right? Like, nobody railed against that because she didn't really stand for much that people knew of. So I think that there is something so here here's an interesting thing.

Bobby:

Right? Unrelated, but related. Our first commercial project, we call somebody. We're like, hey. We see you're on this job.

Bobby:

And they're like, oh, no. We have a vendor. We're good. And I said, well, what if I just show you what our costs are and how much money we're gonna make? Would you give me a shot?

Bobby:

He goes, what do you mean? I go, I'll show you our invoice. I'll show you our labor, and then I'll show you how much money we're gonna make, and you decide if it's a good deal or a bad deal for you. He said, okay. He sent over the drawings.

Bobby:

I sent back line items. Here's the material. Here's the receipt from the vendor of what it would cost. Here's our labor. Here's how much money we're gonna make.

Bobby:

We got the contract. So sometimes I think and I think this is true of the current state of affairs. Mhmm. I think sometimes your brain is better suited to to imagine and to create a world that you think might happen because our brains are so able to do that where what is it? Mark Twain, we suffer more in imagination than in reality.

Bobby:

So I think that that is true very much of the culture that we're in right now. I think very much, like, it's very easy to, like, fast forward and think, oh my gosh. Like, if this happens and that happens and, like, who's gonna stop him? And and so I I just think it's very easy for us to imagine a world where things are real bad because we're creative beings. Like, think it's That's fun and easy.

Tom:

Yeah. That helps I think it helps us survive. I think it's what has helped us survive is our ability to imagine dangerous worlds to avoid. Right? Well, I mean,

Bobby:

it didn't help us in World War two and one. We didn't imagine Hitler could be Hitler. Right? Sure. It didn't I mean, like Well, think we our history

Tom:

have had the imagination. Sure.

Myke:

But now we also know and, like hindsight. And it's it's happened enough now that we're like, not not again.

Bobby:

This is

Myke:

not time. Again, motherfuckers. Like, no. We've seen this before. We're smarter than this.

Myke:

Get it together.

Bobby:

It'll be so interesting. Like, I think COVID was the same thing. Right? If you don't get the vaccine, you're gonna die. Okay.

Bobby:

A lot of people believe it. A lot of people stood up for it. A lot of people got all the shots. How'd that work out? It it so it's so and then there is

Myke:

How did it work no. How did it work out? I think it's a legitimate question.

Tom:

How did it work out?

Myke:

Yeah. I'd like to know.

Bobby:

I don't have an opinion on that. I just know it was like a a boiling point. Like, a lot of people

Tom:

Oh, right.

Bobby:

Get the jab. Don't get the jab. Get the jab. Don't get the jab. It's like two years later, like, are no zombies either way.

Bobby:

Right? Like

Tom:

Well, I think there's a legitimate case there. I mean so, I mean, millions of people did die. So I guess it's just not such a simple thing for me. The jab, I think, saved quite a few lives.

Bobby:

Yeah. I think so.

Myke:

I think I I think back to the pandemic era every once in a while.

Tom:

And

Myke:

before it this one's interesting. But before it got political, like, the because when it first started happening, mean, we were seeing it on the news, but, like, remember the first case was in Canada or no. Sorry. First case nearing, you know, The US. So it was right up there over over above Oregon.

Myke:

And I remember because we're having our conference and our keynote speaker, she was coming

Tom:

Oh, that's right.

Myke:

From whenever and we're like, oh, man. Is she gonna well, like, we have no idea. And she made it. Everything went off that hitch. But I remembered, like, it wasn't political at the beginning.

Myke:

Right? Like, not just yet. It happened pretty quick. But I can remember Tom here in Springfield. We went over to Walmart.

Myke:

We're we were just going doing some, grocery shopping, and the mask thing hadn't turned political just yet. And I remember we we had had ours on. We're like, I don't know. Do we put the mask on? We're like, yeah.

Myke:

We feel silly, but, like, fucking whatever. We have to go get some groceries. Right? And I I I'll never forget this, man. We stepped out of the car and this dude in a truck is driving by and he goes, you know you don't have to wear that mask anymore.

Myke:

And I'm like, oh, weird. And like, again, I hadn't heard really one utterance of this, and I was like, what a weird thing. I'm like, I know, but, you know, like, the world's weird right now, so, like, whatever. You know? And and I'll just never forget, like, yeah, the masks were silly, And, like, I always felt, you know, whatever.

Myke:

Like, what? This thing ain't doing shit. Right? But but at the same time, I'm like, the world is really weird right now. And, you know, it's not that big of a deal.

Myke:

And then the mess that MAGA went and made of the mask, just just the mask alone. Right? And then everything that flowed from it, like, what the shit? I swear if Trump would have just been like, then we got these MAGA masks, you know, they're the best. Merch.

Myke:

All these fucks would have worn them everywhere and this wouldn't even have been a thing. It's a mask and, like, you babies can't even wear that. Like, I know it sucks. It can't inconvenient. Come on.

Bobby:

And see, guess

Myke:

And and, like, it goes from there. It's insane.

Bobby:

So judgmental. Right? Like, I remember, I would go to church, and it'd be like, you don't have to wear a mask if you don't want to. And there would be people that would come in with a mask, and they'd sit through service, and then they'd leave. And then there'd be people that come into service with a mask, and then they would walk out and, like, take their whole family.

Bobby:

And so it's like everybody's tolerance level for fence is different. Mhmm. Like, some people can be very offended very lightly. Other people, it takes a lot to be offended. And kind of the inverse of that is like, there are people that, like, love to get in other people's business.

Bobby:

And like, the guy that drove by you with a mask, like, why would you ever do that? Like, who thinks it's okay to be like, hey, you idiot. Take the mask. It's like, he's what what does that have to do with you? I just don't understand the I'm a big NYOP producer for as long as possible.

Bobby:

Man That's wild.

Myke:

Only we all could be. Right? Because I think that gets it, like, the on center of everything. Tom called

Tom:

here. Side. MYOB, what? BYOB?

Bobby:

Mind your own business.

Tom:

Oh, mind your own business. Okay.

Bobby:

Because I think I said something like that, and you're like, well, barbarians at the gate. When do you stop minding your own business, Bobby? And I'm like, oh, I don't know. My family? I was like, oh, so so your family.

Bobby:

It's it's your family. You're not worried about everybody's family. And I was like, oh, I mean, yeah. But I don't know. I can't you know?

Bobby:

It's just there's so much that there's only so much that we can control, and I guess I I don't know. I just try to like to think that there's some level of control that we have, and and that's it. Outside of that, stuff's gonna happen because there's too many things that have already been in place and moving for that to to not happen. But, I mean, I don't know what's I'm not a I wish I was a physics person to understand how all that works. I know it took something I know some Native American, like, we, let me say it this way.

Bobby:

We are members of a Native American tribe. And so nine generations ago, someone in my family, had a baby, but somebody that was a documented full blooded Chickasaw Nation tribesman tribeswoman. And those nine generations ago led me to where I am right now. Wow. And I'm 38 years old.

Bobby:

So I'm one five twelve Chickasaw. And so

Myke:

Whatever Pocahontas.

Bobby:

So so so thirty eight years later have led me to right here. And so, again, it's almost like so many bad things could happen, but, like, you know, I just I'm here. This is what I this is what I could do right here. I I'm not I don't have a trillion dollars to deploy. I think certain people obviously can be a lot more impactful than others.

Bobby:

And I think that's probably my viewpoint of, like, okay. If I had some resources to Marshall, maybe, like, maybe it would be different, but, you know, I don't. So my my perspective is is smaller or narrower than than maybe

Myke:

it should all of us. That's all of us, though. But a lot Not not not the, like all of us, like, have no power. Right? Like, for real.

Tom:

Yeah.

Myke:

And, like, I think if we all just play a small part in just even just talking and entertaining without, you know, reacting and just talking about these things, even that is enough. So, like, don't sell yourself short. Even just being on this podcast, man, like, you're doing stuff. So this is what we all need to be doing.

Bobby:

I think so many people don't have the time for it. You know? Totally. Life is so busy. And it's like Yep.

Bobby:

Like Yes. My wife has been yelling at me for two hours. I didn't put the kids to bed. My mom was in the background. She's sleeping on the couch.

Tom:

You're in

Myke:

I don't know how to get going

Bobby:

to bed. I'm sleep I'm sleeping right back here

Tom:

on the couch.

Bobby:

And so it's like, part of it too is the important and the urgent. Right? That that battle of, yeah, I should I should know more. I should be better educated. I should be more well read.

Bobby:

I should be more well rounded. But it's like, I'm gonna get up in forty four hours in a day. Yeah. Well and it's like, again, right, you just you can't marshal the same the same even environment that other people can. Like, Mike, if you lived a day in my life, you'd be like, what the?

Tom:

Oh, of course.

Myke:

You know?

Bobby:

And and vice versa. Right? And so it's just it's so interesting how people can have this opinion on others that, like, they're so right or they're so wrong or they're so left. They're so right. And it's like, you just don't.

Bobby:

Yeah. Yeah.

Myke:

That's the thing that everyone needs to remember is that we're all in the middle. Stop with this shit. Always assume that we have way more in common than we don't, like the old saying goes. And if you start from that standpoint, things will change. And, like, this world is so far away from acting like that, it's not even funny.

Myke:

But if we can find a way to do that, so much of our woes would go away. It it's insane. And and like it's it's unintuitive because it's the simple thing. But if if, you know, I get it. Nobody has time.

Myke:

Well, for the one second you cross somebody's path that day, like, be the good human. That's it. Right? Like, I know you don't have four hours to podcasts, but just be the better person all the time. Fuck.

Myke:

When you fail, do it next time.

Bobby:

Right? It's interesting too because, like, because imagine if you're in a competition with a group of people of, like, I'm gonna be better than you today, but, like, in a positive way. So, like, here you go. I'll tell you my Yeah. I'll tell you my better than you thing this week.

Bobby:

Okay? I'm better than you because

Myke:

Yes. It Monday Monday

Bobby:

or Tuesday, a senior citizen called, said, hey. My garage door's broken. We go out there. Her garage door, opener is broken. She's on fixed, income.

Bobby:

Her home in DFW is probably worth a $100,000. So, essentially, it's like a it's it's not much there's not much to it. She goes, but I need to be able to go because I have to go to the doctor. We're like, okay. Well, this new thing is a thousand bucks.

Bobby:

She's like, well, I can't afford it. I go, okay. Well, we'll just put it in, and then we'll leave, and you call us if it stops working. We'll just cover it. She's like, what do you mean you'll cover it?

Bobby:

I go, well, it's, like, honestly, it's a couple $100 in parts, and we can pay the guys. So, like, we'll just do it. She's like, can you send me that in writing? Like, don't have a contract. I don't have a quote.

Bobby:

I was like, here's what I'll do. Put Eddie on the phone. So we so we so I'm just saying, like, it's so easy and you have power. You have autonomy to do good things for people. At what cost?

Bobby:

The opportunity cost to do the right thing is so low And whatever you're doing, if you're a I mean, it doesn't really matter what you do. You can't give away other people's stuff, so you're limited. Yep. Right? People would say you're, like, co in cahoots.

Bobby:

If you're at Walgreens and all ages, I can't pay for my water. And you're like, just take it. They'll fire you. So, like, that's Yes. That's problematic.

Bobby:

But I'm just saying, don't know. You can just do stuff every day. It's little stuff. It's just little stuff.

Myke:

Yep. Amen. Speaking of little stuff, you should probably save yourself, man. Yeah. Get off this podcast.

Myke:

This hey.

Bobby:

I was cooked two hours ago, Mike.

Tom:

This turned out to be a treat, by the way, Bobby. I mean, yes. You were wonderful.

Myke:

Oh. Fantastic. Indeed.

Bobby:

Yep. You guys are great, man. It's, thank you. But no. So I don't know if you I think Tom knows this, but my mom was the biggest Bill Clinton fan.

Bobby:

We love Bill Clinton because we were poor in the nineties, and she had three children. So she grew up worshiping Bill Clinton. Monica Lewinsky, Sheminski. Didn't matter. Doesn't care.

Myke:

Don't matter. Sheminski.

Bobby:

Yeah. It just so so her world view is like like, this is what's good for my family. And so, like, yeah. Like, yeah, he he did this thing that was wrong, but, like, look at all the good he did. And so it's just, I don't know, it's it's interesting just how your environment changes, or not changes, but it shapes so much about your perspective.

Bobby:

And then it's up to you to go fact find and do other things if you want to or believe otherwise.

Tom:

Yep.

Bobby:

But you gotta talk to people smarter than you.

Myke:

Mhmm. Mhmm.

Tom:

Yep. Easy to find. This was Thankfully.

Myke:

Yeah. And then We just fucking throw a dart at the molecular. Here we go.

Bobby:

Where's Mike and Tom? Talk to these guys.

Tom:

I'm just making shit up. I'm just making stuff up and hoping somebody tells me where what they think about the shit I'm making up.

Bobby:

I love the people that act like they know everything, and they're like, no. That's wrong. And you're like, Well, where's the right? And you're like

Myke:

You have to yes. So good.

Bobby:

So good. Just like just say you don't know and then say the thing you think. So at least we know that you're not making stuff up.

Myke:

Yep. And they'll just dig even further further and yeah. It has to change, man. This stuff has to change. Bobby, this was this was really good, man.

Myke:

Remember, when we hit stop here, still chill for just a little bit because it'll finish like uploading

Tom:

finish uploading. Whatnot.

Myke:

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Tom:

Yeah. Sure.

Myke:

Well, we should I imagine we'll be reaching out to guests that we've had for follow ups later. So if this was fun, you know oh, and first, are you I imagine you're cool with us. Like, obviously, we'll edit it and, you know, we can also Yeah. We can drop anything. Just for, like, dead space and stuff.

Myke:

But if there's anything out there, you're like No.

Bobby:

I it's kinda one of those things. If you say it, you just gotta kinda stand behind it and deal with whatever that

Myke:

That's where we're at. Sure.

Tom:

Yep. But but admittedly too, sometimes the context of the conversation may frame it in a way that that you don't intend. That's fair. Right?

Myke:

It's it's full episode. It's not like it it's not like we're editing whole swatches out or anything like that.

Bobby:

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, again, I whatever you guys need to do in terms of editing, by all means. I I just enjoy talking about stuff and picking stuff up from other people. And if it helps somebody or raises a question at hand, that's cool.

Bobby:

If somebody hates This is fan. Because of it, I could deal.

Tom:

Yeah. This was fantastic. It's the whole idea. I actually I picked up a lot of your world view, Bobby. This was good stuff.

Bobby:

Thanks, Gus. This is

Myke:

Yeah. And and just for point of clarity, like, the whole thing with this show is to expose conversations about worldviews and show that you can do so without having to go, you know, cutting people down or resorting to bullshit. If anything, this is a lesson on how to have a conversation with people, and that's as much as we could want out of this.

Tom:

So success. The only thing I illustrate. Yep. This is amazing.

Bobby:

Good stuff, guys.

Myke:

Alright. Excellent. Bobby, good luck tonight. And let's let's talk soon,

Bobby:

Thanks, guys.

Tom:

This has been the middle outcast. Real conversations for a fractured world. With echo chambers being the norm and polarization being inevitable, we go beyond the noise, beyond the headlines. We have real, raw conversations that matter. We hope you've enjoyed the show.

Tom:

If you did, make sure to like, rate, and review. We'll be back soon. Remember, you can find the show on all the major podcasting platforms. Plus, find even more at our website at middleoutcast.com. Remember, there's a lot more than what's on the surface, and that's why we're here.

Tom:

See you next time on the Meddled Out podcast.

Creators and Guests

Myke Bates
Host
Myke Bates
X LinkedIn Bluesky YouTube Website Link
Tom Rankin
Host
Tom Rankin
Bobby Vickers
Guest
Bobby Vickers
X Website Link
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